Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

University Applications Fall 10% In A Year
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> United Kingdom
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: University Applications Fall 10% In A Year Reply with quote

Seems that the hike in tuition fees has put around 10% of domestic students off from applying from university this year:

The number of students applying to university in 2011 was down by 10% compared to the previous year, Sky has learned.
The report to be published on Monday by the university application service UCAS, will show that many thousands of students will not continue into higher education.
Sky's deputy political editor Joey Jones said, "the government is preparing for a fairly ugly figure. Those people who have criticised the goverernment's plans on fees will say this suggests that people are being put off applying.


Maybe the international students will have to take up the slack. Let's just hope they keep coming . . . ?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/university-applications-fall-10-161839310.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yorks Lad



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 70
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly off topic but I do wonder what will happen to ELT in the future, given high tuition fees. The industry pays badly, as we all know, and I can't see in future that potential students are going to spend many thousands on their degree to get into ELT, paying perhaps 300 per week. Will employers have to start accepting people with CELTAs but no degree?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ancient_dweller



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 415
Location: Woodland Bench

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

any wonder! the price has rocketed!

Most people are not employed in graduate jobs. The statistics on graduate employment are skewed and whilst some uni's boast 80% employment post-uni - that also includes unpaid internships, part-time work, taking time out to travel...

in other words - a 27000 quid degree and still no job - some companies like PWC have started to recruit more people straight from school - knowing they have to pay them less and they can do the job just as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, why would one spend 1000's on a degree if there's no job at the end of it? For many British students the penny has now dropped. It's only a matter of time before international students follow suit.

The consequences of borrowing for a degree and working your arse off to get it can sometimes turn tragic if you can't get a job. In Morocco for example this happened recently:

One of two young Moroccans who set himself on fire in Rabat last week during a protest by unemployed university graduates died of his wounds on Tuesday, a hospital source said.

The two men set themselves alight near an education ministry building on January 18, the latest in a string of self-immolations across the region since the Arab Spring started more than a year ago.

"Abdelwahab Zeidoun died at around 5:00 am (0500 GMT)," a doctor at Casablanca's Ibn Rochd hospital told AFP on condition of anonymity.

The 27-year-old, who held a master's degree from the University of Fez, was among a group of five who doused themselves with petrol during a sit-in protest and tried to set themselves alight.

The fire only caught on two of them, who were then transferred to Casablanca, 80 kilometres (50 miles) south of the capital along the coast.


The article continues:

Thousands of Moroccans with university degrees and seeking jobs in the civil service have been demonstrating almost daily to voice their frustration at the lack of employment prospects.

In the north African country of 33 million people, the unemployment rate is officially reported to be 9.6 percent, but 31.4 percent of people aged under 34 are affected.


http://www.canada.com/news/Moroccan+dies+wounds+after+self+immolation/6042379/story.html

Videos have also been posted at YouTube.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kipling



Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: ...Ah Mrs K peel me a grape!!!....and have one yourself!!!!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Go Abroad Reply with quote

Just apply in Europe/EC countiries the fees are much less, around 2000 euros per year and many courses are in English. Check out Scandinavia and the low countries. Hopefully it's where my son, young Master Kip, will be heading.



Mr K

In Far Cathay


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Last edited by Kipling on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 735
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think UK applications for 2012 are almost inevitably bound to drop - there was a one-off glut in 2011 in anticipation of the fees rise, but also fewer students went off on gap-years. There is also a demographic decline in the number of 18 year olds leaving school in 2012 than 2011.

However, curiously, applications by Scottish students to Scottish universities, where they pay no fees, are down by 17%. In Wales and Northern Ireland, where they still charge a maximum 3,400 GB pounds, applications are down by about 10%. This somewhat indicates that the decrease in England cannot simply be explained by new fees.

However, applications from outside the EU have risen considerably, by almost 14%....Hong Kong by 30.5% and Australasia by 21%.

I work at a top-ranking London university, and already most of our courses are fully-booked and seriously over-subscribed. That is because we do "hard" subjects, such as medicine, law, dentistry, engineering, maths, chemistry, physics. It will be the post-1992 former polytechnics, which offer "soft" courses that will suffer, as people are beginning to realise that many of their degrees are" useless".

Just look at some of the degrees offered after which folk cannot get a job :

David Beckham studies (Staffordshire)
Parapsychology (Ghostbusters) (Coventry)
BSc in Surfing Science (Plymouth)
Golf Course Management
Accountancy and Dance (Derby)
Robin Hood Studies (Nottingham)
Kinesiology
Cinematics
Imaginative Writing..................................etc etc.

I'll be more than happy if applications drop from these Mickey Mouse courses. Overseas students rarely apply for any of these; they focus on the "hard" subjects. Tony Blair wanted everybody to have a degree, whereas it is accepted that only about 20% of the population actually have the intellectual capacity for university.

"If the world ended tomorrow, what useful skills or study could you bring to the mix?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's actually an "Accountancy and Dance" course?????? I'd rather sign up for the Robin Hood Studies! Might learn some bushcraft and a few other alternative skills.

Yes, check out continental Europe as a region where it's often cheaper to study. Of course you'll probably need the local language unless your course is offered in English.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Go Abroad Reply with quote

Kipling wrote:
Just apply in Europe/EC countiries the fees are much less, around 2000 euros per year and many courses are in English. Check out Scandinavia and the low countries. Hopefully it's where my son, young Master Kip, will be heading.


Others will be heading to the US for their education:

Almost 9,000 British undergraduates and postgraduates studied in the US last year and the number is expected to soar in 2012.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/8468493/More-British-students-vying-for-American-universities.html

And some parents are even looking further afield to educate their kids. I met a British-Indian businessman a few weeks ago and he said that he was sending his son to a college in Dehli because he believed his son would get a better education there. He added: "British universities are not what they used to be. Standards have dropped. Their reputations will be worthless in a few years."

Obviously the perception is that an overseas education is not only cheaper, but better. Seems the wheel of education is turning . . .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PC Parrot



Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 394
Location: Moral Police Station

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Indian businessman could just be a cheapskate with a convenient excuse ..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 735
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UK students are scarcely leaving the UK to go the US to study and avoid the rise in tuition fees! The overwhelming majority who go to the US are from private/public schools with well-off parents, since the average 4 year college course in the US is about $26,000 a year for tuition/fees. Add on to that about $12,000 a year for accommodation and then health insurance....

Even US students are starting to question degree costs in the US:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11344228

UK students who can afford to study in the US usually choose the broader education offered - in the US, an undergraduate spends 2 years covering a range of subjects before specialising. In the UK, the course is specialised for 3 years, and advertised as such.

As for Scandinavia, they have already put an end to free education for non-EU students. Denmark charges about 10,000 Euros a year for a non-EU student, likewise Sweden, and added to that are very high living costs and accommodation. To obtain a visa in these countries you have to produce evidence that sufficient funds have been deposited in the bank.
Whilst some courses are offered in English, many BA/BSc undergraduate courses require knowledge of the local language.

In Holland, the tuition per year is about 12,000 Euros for an EU student.

I fear the days of "free"education are over in these days of world recession.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Finland was still a possibility for low fees - could have changed though. I believe low fees are still a possibility in some states in Germany. I've heard different ones have different rules, so it's not federally decided.

I don't think getting a higher education should cripple you financially, nor do I think only 'hard' subjects are of value. I was very lucky to get certain benefits when I studied for a year in the UK as an EU student. I couldn't get that now and I wouldn't have been able to afford it without that help whether I were a "home or EU" student. Things have radically changed - for "home" students - and it's not for the better. Sure, times are tough economically but conservative govts almost immediately slash education and health budgets. They're always focussed on the short term economic gain. This one is no doubt pouring millions into the Olympic Games. I'm sure that'll do wonders for Britain.

I seriously doubt that only 20% of the population has the intellectual capacity for university. I couldn't stand Tony Blair but at least his govt. opened up education to a much broader section of people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
morrisonhotel



Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:


In Holland, the tuition per year is about 12,000 Euros for an EU student.

I fear the days of "free"education are over in these days of world recession.


12,000? I've applied to three universities in the Netherlands for studying for a master's (Utrecht, Amsterdam and Maastricht). The fees are about about a sixth of what you have written above. B.A. fees at Utrecht per year, for example, are 1713 euros per semester for EU students.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 735
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

morrisonhotel,

According to the website www.eurogates.nl/programs I agree that 1,771 euros(per semester, you say??) seems to be the cheapest for an EU student, up to 56,000 euros at Tilburg.

However, the website also states (in poor English!) that
"According to Dutch officials, the minimal sum necessary for students residing in Holland is about 800 euros per month. The presence of this amount ( @ 12 months =9,600 Euros) in the bank account of the account of the candidate is a necessary condition of obtaining an educational visa".

So the average seems to be between 7,000 and 12,000 for EU students but 14,000 to 22,000 for non-EU students.

Then you must consider the university's rating in the world - would a degree from Tilburg be as readily acceptable as one from London?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
morrisonhotel



Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
morrisonhotel,

According to the website www.eurogates.nl/programs I agree that 1,771 euros(per semester, you say??) seems to be the cheapest for an EU student, up to 56,000 euros at Tilburg.

However, the website also states (in poor English!) that
"According to Dutch officials, the minimal sum necessary for students residing in Holland is about 800 euros per month. The presence of this amount ( @ 12 months =9,600 Euros) in the bank account of the account of the candidate is a necessary condition of obtaining an educational visa".

So the average seems to be between 7,000 and 12,000 for EU students but 14,000 to 22,000 for non-EU students.

Then you must consider the university's rating in the world - would a degree from Tilburg be as readily acceptable as one from London?


Utrecht's fees, in keeping with the previous example, are for the entire year. The other two universities I would like to attend are also the same.

Educational visas aren't, as far as I'm aware, given to EU students. They are given to non-EU students so that's a moot point as what you stated was "In Holland, the tuition per year is about 12,000 Euros for an EU student." No mention of non-EU students. I was taking issue with your claim about fees for EU students. Moreover, those monthly requirements seem more related to the cost of living than anything to do with tuition.

Utrecht, Amsterdam, Groningen, Leiden, etc. are all perfectly reputable. The choice isn't between Tilburg and London. The choice is between 'x' Dutch university (or, for that matter, any other European or world university) and 'x' British university .


Last edited by morrisonhotel on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9446
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maastricht is very well-respected worldwide in International Business and Economics. It all depends on field, really.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> United Kingdom All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC