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sparks
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 632
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 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Oh My God! Finally a topic that everyone seems to be in agreement upon. I believe it's the family that causes the kids to go home. Mom lays on the guilt trip through ever-so-subtle remarks like "Oh, not coming home? But I made your favorite soup and thought that we could go to the store together..." I guess mothers around the world are similar, but the kids in Poland take it to heart. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:53 am Post subject: old Poland |
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That family thing is part of the old classy Poland that I love.
Modern Poland is a greedy self-interested, me me me rat race. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: old Poland |
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[quote="sharter"]That family thing is part of the old classy Poland that I love.
[quote]
i like it to, but the rate at which it seems to trump everything else in their lives is alarming. family needs to be able to recognize when it's time to cut the chains and let their little birdies spread their wings. |
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maniak
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Wow... children wanting to go home on the weekends and see their family is something... obscene?
Kinda makes me wonder what kind of dysfunctional families all of you had...
I say thank god there is as at least a semblance of a family structure here in Poland and that people forgo better "job opportunities" to maintain them, is nothing sacred for you guys???
Nice job galloping behind all this BS behind employment in Poland needing "more flexibility" and whatnot, i.e., give everyone a *beep* contract and fire them when you please.
In fact Im happy that most of them tell you to shove it delph, good for them.
Edit: I'm going to keep the original post as it is but reading it again its far too harsh, I apologize for that.
Last edited by maniak on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Let's face it, a strong family connection is something to be proud of. I believe this connection is one reason Poland doesn't have 'western' problems like gangs, drugs, violence, teen pregnancy etc. to the degree we do back home.
However, Poles often take family to the extreme, what with the long trips home EVERY weekend, waiting until they are in their mid-late twenties to get a job and move out, being mollycoddled.
If you lived like this in the States people would be lining up to make fun of you! Here it just seems normal.
As a side note, if you think Poland takes family too far, go visit SE Asia. Asian cultures take family to a whole new extreme. I've lived in Thailand and it's not unusual for parents to choose their child's subject of study, partner, career, etc. there. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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the quote function on this website is total crap. when i highlight one sentence and hit "quote", it quotes the entire damn post. annoying.
| Master Shake wrote: |
| I've lived in Thailand and it's not unusual for parents to choose their child's subject of study, partner, career, etc. there. |
now that's just creepy. communists 
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If you lived like this in the States people would be lining up to make fun of you!
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absolutely.
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that people forgo better "job opportunities" to maintain them, is nothing sacred for you guys???
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it's the 21st century, bucko. you wanna make it in this world, especially if you live in a place like Poland, you better wise up and realize the world you're living in. the business world doesn't give a damn how often you see your momma or how long it's been since you've seen your best friend Zbyszek, you've spent 20 some odd years doing nothing but going to school and being coddled by mommy and daddy, time to make something happen for yourself. or don't, enjoy your shite salary and 35 sq. meter flat shared by 2 other poor schlubs living on top of each other and watch the ones that actually got a grip on life pass you by.
that's plain English for ya'  |
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maniak
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
it's the 21st century, bucko. you wanna make it in this world, especially if you live in a place like Poland, you better wise up and realize the world you're living in. the business world doesn't give a damn how often you see your momma or how long it's been since you've seen your best friend Zbyszek, you've spent 20 some odd years doing nothing but going to school and being coddled by mommy and daddy, time to make something happen for yourself. or don't, enjoy your shite salary and 35 sq. meter flat shared by 2 other poor schlubs living on top of each other and watch the ones that actually got a grip on life pass you by.
that's plain English for ya' |
People before us have fought and died for an 8 hour workweek, two day weekend, bathroom breaks, vacation, decent working conditions, worker's right and a million other things. Look at how precise labor laws are. Do you think it all happened by chance, or through the good of some politician's heart? Or that big business thought its workers needed some "coddling"?
Im sure like most Americans you trully believe in the ol' pull yourself up by your bootstraps crap. Going by that same analogy the Chinese factory peasant working 120 hours a week is your shining example.
Jon Stewart said it all here:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-16-2012/fear-factory
But this is going off on a tangent. The issue here is that delph has got a beef with poles not wanting to work on a Sunday because they have family commitments. Like I said before, good for them. They value family, a good home cooked meal and respect over making another buck. Im glad that they are not trying to "wise up and join such a work culture, and the more people that do so the better for everyone.
Speaking of "enjoy your shite salary", Im sure public school teachers are at the leading top of your "shite list"? I rent a room to a high school teacher, 30 years old and cant afford to rent an apartment and she busts her ass.
But anyway, keep rallying that cry. Less academics and philosophers, no more humanities! Who needs that crap? We need more high paying professionals, lawyers, doctors! The business owners! Everyone should be a business owner! You, who sweeps the streets, I sure as hell wont do that crummy work and I sure as hell wont pay you a damn to do it either! Its YOUR fault, not mine!
Seriously dynow, really rethink your perspective here. |
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simon_porter00
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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... I'm a bit confused.
On one hand you've got dynow saying you've got to work hard and try hard and do you best and you'll (if you're lucky) get your job which'll mean working hard and making some sacrifices - which is like the rest of the world and seems fair enough to me.
After all, if you don't want to work hard, then why should you be paid well? Similarly, if you want to work for the state, who pay low wages relatively speaking around the whole world, then you know what awaits. The idea behind this is you have a choice.
Or you have the maniak "why should anyone be forced to work more than 40 hours a week, not visit mum & dad every weekend (which does seem a little excessive IMHO)" argument. Which again, comes down to choice doesn't it?
I don't HAVE to work 40 teaching hours a week, but I did, because I wanted/had to. I made a choice. I don't have to earn 2000zl a month but I do because I made a choice. (Choices can also include not working harder, being lazy etc etc).
Polish workers (as every worker around the world) have a choice. If they want to make a success of themselves (and lets not forget success is a subjective factor) then let them do what they want. But to moan about your lot in life as a result seems rather short-sighted.
Personally, I sympathise with employers who need people to do a job that have unsociable hours. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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maniak wrote:
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Speaking of "enjoy your shite salary", Im sure public school teachers are at the leading top of your "shite list"? I rent a room to a high school teacher, 30 years old and cant afford to rent an apartment and she busts her ass.
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i don't think i even understand the point of this. what are you asking me? high school teacher where?
maniak wrote:
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| Im sure like most Americans you trully believe in the ol' pull yourself up by your bootstraps crap. |
most of us believe you pave your own road to success. if working 2 jobs to get you over the cusp is what you need to do for a while, you do it. mom's pierogi isn't going anywhere.
maniak wrote:
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Going by that same analogy the Chinese factory peasant working 120 hours a week is your shining example.
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work smarter, not harder. when you know you can better yourself by making certain changes/sacrifices in your life, it doesn't mean you're going to a 14 hour work day, it simply takes somebody that is willing to make the changes. what we are saying here is that it takes a certain person to recognize this, to be able to hunker down and say I'm gonna do this today to make tomorrow easier/better/more profitable. many Poles seem to lack this ability. a 25 year old living in Zakopane may have an amazing opportunity in Gdansk, the job pays twice as much and it would be a promotion.....not taking that job because you won't see your family as much.....well, like simonporter00 said, it's subjective in the end, but i think saying no to something like that is insanity, especially in Poland. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| maniak wrote: |
| Wow... children wanting to go home on the weekends and see their family is something... obscene? |
It certainly is when the person is mid 20's and wants a job that pays well. Employers are naturally going to run a mile if they think that Magda is going to travel 4 hours every weekend each way just to see mummy - she'll be knackered quickly and won't perform to a decent standard.
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| Kinda makes me wonder what kind of dysfunctional families all of you had... |
Quite normal, thanks. 
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| I say thank god there is as at least a semblance of a family structure here in Poland and that people forgo better "job opportunities" to maintain them, is nothing sacred for you guys??? |
Then they shouldn't bitch and complain about earning poor salaries in return. If Mummy wants them at home so much, then they should find the kid a decent job locally.
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Nice job galloping behind all this BS behind employment in Poland needing "more flexibility" and whatnot, i.e., give everyone a *beep* contract and fire them when you please.
In fact Im happy that most of them tell you to shove it delph, good for them. |
They don't say "shove it" - they're the ones queuing up to work. It's getting the good ones (who don't run home to mummy every weekend) that's the hard part. They're the ones who work hard, who are willing to turn up at the weekend to get something done and who get paid more as a result.
I see a distinct correlation between "running home to mummy" and "crap wages". No-one is ever going to pay big bucks to a girl who runs at 3pm for a train to the middle of nowhere on Fridays, are they?
| Quote: |
| Edit: I'm going to keep the original post as it is but reading it again its far too harsh, I apologize for that. |
It's a discussion forum - don't worry  I'd rather you have a strong honest opinion than anything else.
[quote=dynow]what we are saying here is that it takes a certain person to recognize this, to be able to hunker down and say I'm gonna do this today to make tomorrow easier/better/more profitable. many Poles seem to lack this ability. a 25 year old living in Zakopane may have an amazing opportunity in Gdansk, the job pays twice as much and it would be a promotion.....not taking that job because you won't see your family as much.....well, like simonporter00 said, it's subjective in the end, but i think saying no to something like that is insanity, especially in Poland.[/quote]
It is insanity. I've seen it happen quite a few times here - mummy objects, and their dream move gets put on ice. Sure, it might suck working two jobs 700km from home - but tomorrow is going to be bloody great when someone recognises your work ethic.
[quote=maniak]People before us have fought and died for an 8 hour workweek, two day weekend, bathroom breaks, vacation, decent working conditions, worker's right and a million other things. Look at how precise labor laws are. Do you think it all happened by chance, or through the good of some politician's heart? Or that big business thought its workers needed some "coddling"?[/quote]
The problem is that in Poland, people stick to their conditions rigidly and won't compromise. That's why they get stuck on Umowa Zlecenie and won't get Umowa o Prace - because no-one is going to take the risk with someone who refuses to work the occasional weekend.
| Quote: |
| The issue here is that delph has got a beef with poles not wanting to work on a Sunday because they have family commitments. Like I said before, good for them. They value family, a good home cooked meal and respect over making another buck. Im glad that they are not trying to "wise up and join such a work culture, and the more people that do so the better for everyone. |
It would be fine and well if everyone was like that. But they're not - and this is why those people are earning rubbish salaries while others are earning much more.
The point is that they often stick with what mummy says over being sensible - your work needs you on Sunday, but in exchange, you can have 2 days off. Great deal - but often turned down because mummy wants them home and she can't possibly cook on a different day because...because...tradition!
I know someone who is getting a hard time now because of exactly this situation - her boss needs her to work Sundays. She won't do it because her mother expects her to be 150km away every weekend - and she's 27. Unsurprisingly, she can't get a boyfriend because no guy is going near such a woman - and her boss is furious because she won't compromise at all.
At the end of the day, especially in Poland - if you want the nice house, the nice car and the nice private school for the kids, you have to work for it. There's just no easy way out where you get both mummy's cooking every week and a high paid job. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: wtf |
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| Two million Poles left to find work in recent years. Poles work hard and are quite prepared to move to find it. This isn't a recent phenomenon as any US citizen can tell you- just take a look at Chicago. The majority of Poles don't have tonnes of money because the median wage is shite for various reasons. I applaud people who would rather go and see their folks than work the weekend for a crap kicker. The rich,I think you'll find, rarely work the weekends. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: wtf |
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| sharter wrote: |
| The rich,I think you'll find, rarely work the weekends. |
but ask the rich how they started (excluding old money of course). |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:12 am Post subject: Re: wtf |
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| sharter wrote: |
| I applaud people who would rather go and see their folks than work the weekend for a crap kicker. The rich,I think you'll find, rarely work the weekends. |
Usually because they've earnt the right not to work at weekend, or they didn't earn the money in the first place.
Probably the richest person I know of (who earns well over quarter of a million pounds a year) doesn't know what "day off" means. In fact, thinking about it now - I know one millionaire who spent nearly 10 years absolutely obsessing over the obscure chemical technology that made him a millionaire - "weekend" meant nothing to him. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: erm |
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Good luck to him/her.
I work to live, not vice versa and we're all old enough to make our choices.
I was a city trader before I got into TEFL and no-one there worked weekends...they were all rich. It really depends on what business you're in and the reward trade off. Giving up your Saturday night might be okay if you're gonna make a tonne of money as a consequence, but Jazek from Konin might prefer to go see his mum rather than fill his pockets with a princely 150Zl.
Having a day off when all your pals are at work is a bit dumb. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Saturday is my busiest teaching day of the week. Six clock teaching hours. Last year I would occasionally work an hour or two on Sunday.
Sure, I'd rather not work weekends and evenings, but these times are when the demand is highest for lessons. So I go out a bit during the week to make up for the lost weekends. Plenty of teachers to meet up with since we're all on basically the same schedule.
One thing I've realized after being here a few years is that busting your ass 24/7 as a teacher in Poland doesn't make sense. The zloties you earn just don't amount to much when you travel or go back to your home country.
Better to move to a better paying country, or relax, teach a moderate number of hours, and enjoy what Poland has to offer. |
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