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as a non-degree holder, how valuable is the first year?
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gtd



Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: as a non-degree holder, how valuable is the first year? Reply with quote

I'm currently in the process of finding my first ESL job in Asia. I dont have a degree, just my TESOL, so I know my options are limited. What i'd like to know is if i worked in China (for example) for 1 year, would that be enough to get me into somewhere more desirable such as South Korea or Japan? Or is a degree my only chance?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11441
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: as a non-degree holder, how valuable is the first year? Reply with quote

Unfortunately, having experience won't get you a work permit for those countries; you'd need a 4-year degree.
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gtd



Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not the answer i was hoping for. what about other countries like Taiwan, Vietnam, or Thailand?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11441
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about Taiwan, Vietnam, or Thailand; other posters might have answers for you. I see you posted this same question before, http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=93499. Were you expecting visa and job requirements to have changed in the past two months?

The bigger question is: Are you planning on making TEFL a career? If so, you'll need to eventually get a degree if you want to improve your chances for getting those better-paying teaching jobs in your desired countries. Otherwise, you'll have to continue to be very flexible as to where you can go for work. And those choices will remain limited. That's reality.
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gtd



Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
I see you posted this same question before, http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=93499. Were you expecting visa and job requirements to have changed in the past two months?.


not the same question at all but thanks for the help...
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11441
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if I sounded harsh, but your questions are similar in that the real issue is satisfying a country's education requirements for a valid work permit. It won't matter how many years of teaching you have if you aren't eligible to legally work in certain countries because you lack a degree. Plus, more employers are requiring them. This is why I asked if you wanted to make TEFL your career.

There may be a few countries that currently offer the type of flexibiity you're seeking, but that pool is shrinking---the situation has changed over the past 10 or so years. And you certainly don't want to bank on using experience alone as a ticket to move on to other countries. Your options may end up as either working illegally or under a working holiday visa. The former is certainly very risky; the latter, a possibility but with rules and restrictions. Do an Internet search on countries that offer a working holiday visa and maybe that will give you a better of idea of where you might be able to teach.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: as a non-degree holder, how valuable is the first year? Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Unfortunately, having experience won't get you a work permit for those countries; you'd need a 4-year degree.


I seem to think you can work in Japan without a degree if you have three years of relevant and verifiable experience, but certainly not one.

A 4-year degree? The majority of degree courses in the UK take three years - are you suggesting that most British graduates are precluded from working in Korea or Japan? I think the idea of a country only accepting a "4-year degree" is a slightly dated and US-centric conceit, although I'm prepared to stand corrected.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: as a non-degree holder, how valuable is the first year? Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
A 4-year degree? The majority of degree courses in the UK take three years - are you suggesting that most British graduates are precluded from working in Korea or Japan? I think the idea of a country only accepting a "4-year degree" is a slightly dated and US-centric conceit, although I'm prepared to stand corrected.

Definitely no "US-centric conceit" on my part; simply my choice of words and nothing more. I assume posters on this forum realize I'm referring to a bachelors degree.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the alarming level of naivety, general lack of knowledge, and unwillingness or inability to carry out independent research shown by a number of posters on this board, I think it's very dangerous to assume anything Smile
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
Given the alarming level of naivety, general lack of knowledge, and unwillingness or inability to carry out independent research shown by a number of posters on this board, I think it's very dangerous to assume anything Smile


ROFL Razz Twisted Evil Laughing
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gtd



Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the input NOMAD SOUL. at this point in time i'm not sure whether i'd like to make TEFL a career. it's something i'd have to try out for a while and see where it goes from there. I do plan on working in Asia for the forseeable future, most likely working from contract to contract, country to country. I hear so many great things about ALL of Asia it would be unlikely for me to stay in the same place for too long.
However, earning a degree is still something i would like to pursue, long-term
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtd wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
I see you posted this same question before, http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=93499. Were you expecting visa and job requirements to have changed in the past two months?.


not the same question at all but thanks for the help...


Without a BA/BS degree from an English speaking country, you are VERY limited in your options for any serious EFL jobs, moving up the career ladder from entry-level, backpacker orientated gigs or even from working legally in most countries.

There are various options available, depending on your nationality and where you are in the world. In Mexico City for example, there is a very affordable BA degree program which is offered part-time, designed for working EFL pro's and it is very affordable. The degree comes from a prestigous private US uni.

You have to network and research in your neck of the woods. Online degrees are another option and there are quality non-US uni's that will deliver a recognized degree program for the fraction of the cost of what you would pay to an American based college or uni.

US citizens are eligible for financial aid, even for online degree programs from schools approved by the Dept. of Education.

But the days of a "teacher" with just a TEFL cert. & some exp. teaching being able to pick & choose their job, country and pay rate is fast becoming a thing of the past, a relic of the days of EFL lore from before.
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: as a non-degree holder, how valuable is the first year? Reply with quote

gtd wrote:
I'm currently in the process of finding my first ESL job in Asia. I dont have a degree, just my TESOL, so I know my options are limited. What I'd like to know is if i worked in China (for example) for 1 year, would that be enough to get me into somewhere more desirable such as South Korea or Japan? Or is a degree my only chance?


Can you find LEGAL work in East / Southeast Asia = yes in places like:
Cambodia. Laos,. Indonesia.

No, NOT legal work (proper visa and work/residence permits) in China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, Taiwan. A DEGREE (3 or 4 year doesn't matter) from an accredited university is required.

Can you fine illegal work in Taiwan, China, Thailand, Korea, etc = yes but there are risks involved that include: arrest, detention, fines and/or deportation. Since you would be working illegally there are other issues as well: no protection when your employer screws you, substantially lower pay, no benefits, etc.

IF you are from the UK then western Europe is an option (degree not required).
If you are NOT from the UK then western Europe is NOT an option.

If you are from the Americas then go south. There is lots of work in Mexico, central and south America.

Also be aware that as of 2015 a degree WILL be a requirement in ALL of the ASEAN countries. The days of the backpacker TEFL teacher are fast becoming a thing of the past and rapidly going the way of the Dodo bird.

And finally to answer your specific question: NO, a year's experience will NOT substitute for a degree in getting legal work in ANY country in East/Southeast Asia. A degree is your ONLY option for legal work in any of the better paying markets and all of the better paying jobs.

Finally, if you are NOT American you have legitimate ways and means of earning a degree in your spare time on a limited budget from proper universities (Open University in the UK, Athabasca U if you are in Canada, etc.) with recognized, accredited undergraduate degrees.

.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2230
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: as a non-degree holder, how valuable is the first year? Reply with quote

tttompatz wrote:
gtd wrote:
I'm currently in the process of finding my first ESL job in Asia. I dont have a degree, just my TESOL, so I know my options are limited. What I'd like to know is if i worked in China (for example) for 1 year, would that be enough to get me into somewhere more desirable such as South Korea or Japan? Or is a degree my only chance?


Finally, if you are NOT American you have legitimate ways and means of earning a degree in your spare time on a limited budget from proper universities (Open University in the UK, Athabasca U if you are in Canada, etc.) with recognized, accredited undergraduate degrees.


FYI

International Students

If you are not a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada, and you plan to remain in your home country while you complete your AU program, you can follow the same application process as Canadian students.


http://www2.athabascau.ca/students/starter/international.php
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gtd



Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tttompatz wrote:
Can you find LEGAL work in East / Southeast Asia = yes in places like:
Cambodia. Laos,. Indonesia.

No, NOT legal work (proper visa and work/residence permits) in China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, Taiwan. A DEGREE (3 or 4 year doesn't matter) from an accredited university is required.


Thanks tttompatz and everyone else. I have been seeing that Indonesia is a place i can legally work and to be honest it seams the most appealing to me (i've heard the salaries in Cambodia and Laos are relatively low where as Indonesia not so much). However I'm currently speaking with the company where i got my TESOL cert. (Oxford Seminars) and they are telling me that they have contacts in China and Thailand where a degree is not necessary. However they also told me their contacts in Indonesia require a degree. Does this sound legit?

I've yet to question them, I figured I'd ask around here first. Ideally I'd prefer to work somewhere legal!
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