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My Rant Against Racial Discrimination
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creztor



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne, there's is a rumour that several years ago GVO tried to cut costs by firing all the Caucasian teachers and hired ABCs at a lower price. The result was that many students were upset and stopped going. GVO then started rehiring Caucasian teachers because of complaints and problems from students. I don't know if this is true, but I have heard the same story from several students at GVO in the past. GVO is essentially a part-time gig, at least at the start, but it is dead easy work. I'd give them a try, but just don't expect too many hours.
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wayne1523



Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 98
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. Wouldn't hurt to have a crack at it.
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bluelungs2



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's so terrible I had to reply. It should be illegal to discriminate in that way and someone should work to change the laws in Taiwan to protect all people as having equal protection in all areas of life (employment, housing, etc.), whether they are in the majority or a minority.

Good luck to you.
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yamahuh



Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1026
Location: Karaoke Hell

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluelungs2 wrote:
..someone should work to change the laws in Taiwan to protect all people as having equal protection in all areas of life ...
Good luck to you.


Rolling Eyes
We aren't in Kansas anymore Toto.

I think you'll find that the laws in Taiwan don't openly discriminate anymore than the ones in the US do but - let's not fool ourselves here - discrimination, racial profiling and stereotyping happen everywhere.

Most people don't all have equal protection in all areas of life - you're from the States, surely this isn't news...
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bluelungs2



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the United States, Wayne could sue said institution for what they did. Because he could potentially sue them, the company might be persuaded to act differently in order to protect themselves from such a lawsuit.

One could argue that a company should be free to pay anyone any amount of money for whatever reason, and the person has the freedom to accept or reject the job offer.

One could also argue that a person should be free to have his/her work judged and paid for based on merit alone, without consideration of irrelevant qualities, be they race, religion, sex or orientation.

I vote for the latter.

This discussion isn't about the social issues of the United States, but if it were I'd offer my opinions. But yes, I do think it's a good thing that people can take grievances based on racial discrimination to the courts and I would encourage such a system in Taiwan.

Do they have such a system in place? It seems not. If they do, Wayne should sue. You have to pick your battles wisely, but if no one battles, nothing changes.
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yamahuh



Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1026
Location: Karaoke Hell

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said - discrimination of any kind is unjust and profoundly unfair - however there is a sociological concept called ethnocentricity, which states that people tend to judge foreign cultures, values and morality based on their own. You are proving it.

The simple truth is we are not in the USA / Canada. We are in Taiwan for better or worse. It is what it is - changing a discriminatory employment policy goes so much deeper than simply pointing out the inequity - saying 'This isn't fair'.

Parents want their children to be taught by obviously 'Western' faces so that is who schools want to hire. This is a culture obsessed by appearance. Wayne could be the best English teacher in all of Taiwan but unfortunately if little Johnny's mom wants to be able to boast to her friends about how her son is being taught by someone from America / England / Canada etc (who looks Western and not Asian) Wayne isn't going to get the respect or the pay.

I would suggest that this is an employment practice that he should have researched and been fully aware of before he arrived. It's certainly nothing new.
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KaiFeng



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 88
Location: At the top of the food chain.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yamahuh wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said - discrimination of any kind is unjust and profoundly unfair - however there is a sociological concept called ethnocentricity, which states that people tend to judge foreign cultures, values and morality based on their own. You are proving it.

[good thoughts excised simply to save space]

I would suggest that this is an employment practice that he should have researched and been fully aware of before he arrived. It's certainly nothing new.


If Wayne chooses to remain in Taipei in this line of work (that is, "language work", not simply teaching), he simply needs to find a way to make it succeed. If I were in his position, I would:

- Teach adults in foreign companies, where HR staff and students are more likely to be enlightened (only in North American terms, of course).
- Market himself as a teacher for "shy" students who might be intimidated by all that white skin and blue eyes.
- Work in dubbing and voiceovers where he is never seen by the end-user.
- Work in copywriting/editing/translation/broadcasting where he is never seen by the end-user.
- Etc.

These should present ample opportunity to succeed in the cultural environment of Taiwan (and other Asian lands). As a general observation (and not thinking particularly of anything anyone here has been saying), we should be willing to accept a business market for what it is, blemishes and all, or we should find someplace where we will be happier. My Taiwanese wife in the states still finds things which offend her, sometimes in how this culture treats her, but she is able to make living here work.
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Dr_Zoidberg



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 406
Location: Not posting on Forumosa.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: My Rant Against Racial Discrimination Reply with quote

wayne1523 wrote:

I actually landed a job at a cram school teaching kids. They paid me like a white fellow: 600NT/hr. But I left it anyway...


Did you have a contract (verbal or written) with your original employer - the one paying you 600NT per hour? Did you suddenly walk away from it, leaving your employer in the lurch because you thought you had a better offer somewhere else?

If so, stop whining and suck it up. You got everything you deserved, and deserved everything you got.
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JDB



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yamahuh wrote:

I think you'll find that the laws in Taiwan don't openly discriminate anymore than the ones in the US do




Actually, I think you will find that laws do openly discriminate in Taiwan, just ask some factory workers that have come from the Philippines, Thailand or Indonesia. I have been told by some of my Taiwanese friends that laws in Taiwan use language referring to them that is racially discriminating.

The idea that all people are equal is a western ideal, and is not something commonly held by Taiwanese.

To the original poster: I'm sorry to hear about what happened, I can sympathize with you, but it goes both ways. In other circumstances Caucasians are also discriminated against for having a "white face," that's Taiwan. You either live with it or end up bitching about it every time it happens (it will happen again).
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3824
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDB wrote:
yamahuh wrote:

I think you'll find that the laws in Taiwan don't openly discriminate anymore than the ones in the US do




Actually, I think you will find that laws do openly discriminate in Taiwan, just ask some factory workers that have come from the Philippines, Thailand or Indonesia. I have been told by some of my Taiwanese friends that laws in Taiwan use language referring to them that is racially discriminating.

The idea that all people are equal is a western ideal, and is not something commonly held by Taiwanese.

To the original poster: I'm sorry to hear about what happened, I can sympathize with you, but it goes both ways. In other circumstances Caucasians are also discriminated against for having a "white face," that's Taiwan. You either live with it or end up bitching about it every time it happens (it will happen again).


Unless you are a Filipino, Thai or Indonesian worker in Taiwan you have nothing to complain about.

At least you get free time as opposed to some workers from the previously mentioned countries who may not get any days off or one every three months.

Legally they should get one day off a week, but that is not the reality.
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JDB



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZer wrote:
Unless you are a Filipino, Thai or Indonesian worker in Taiwan you have nothing to complain about.

At least you get free time as opposed to some workers from the previously mentioned countries who may not get any days off or one every three months.

Legally they should get one day off a week, but that is not the reality.



I'm not sure what you think I'm complaining about.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3824
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDB wrote:
JZer wrote:
Unless you are a Filipino, Thai or Indonesian worker in Taiwan you have nothing to complain about.

At least you get free time as opposed to some workers from the previously mentioned countries who may not get any days off or one every three months.

Legally they should get one day off a week, but that is not the reality.



I'm not sure what you think I'm complaining about.


Taiwanese being unfair!
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JDB



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZer, I think you should reread my post, no where am I complaining. Do I state that Taiwan is unfair? Absolutely. I was trying to make it very clear that you will face unfair treatment here (you will face unfair not just here, but in any country). But I also say you need to learn to deal with it or you will complain.
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Kawika



Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Saigon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne, hope you're doing better now. I had similar experiences in Vietnam when I first moved to VN being Asian American, and got very mad at first. But after putting things in perspective (how lucky -or unlucky- I was just be born and educated in America) and learning the ropes- knowing the crappy locally run schools that discriminate based on Asian appearance vs the western managed schools that hire based on merit- was able to land great jobs. Hope you are finding good teaching opportunities in Taiwan, stay resourceful and motivated Smile

One teacher in the VN forum shared this article: http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/15/11720584-in-china-english-teaching-is-a-whites-only-club?lite

Is it that blatant in Taiwan like it is in China (according to the article)?

I posted an ad for private teaching in Saigon, and when I get recruiters email me from China, I share that article and ask them if they also hire based on ethnic background, letting them know I hope they have an influence on the hiring decision and don't discriminate based on appearance.

I am not trying to change the world, but do little things that I think are right, that are hopefully planting seeds around the world. Being educators we have a responsibility to be role models and do the right thing 'With great power comes great responsibility'
Very Happy
thanks to all for sharing their thoughts and experiences on the subject, cheers Smile
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Firearcher



Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allow me to provide a little realism.

First let me say that i don't view this as discrimination. Now before people start yelling allow me to elaborate. Back in the west I recall going into a Chinese Food restaurant and not being pleased when i saw white people in there serving me. I am white. I did not want a white person. I wanted Chinese. Or at the very least an Asian person from any Asian country. Why? i wanted the Asian experience. That was why I paid my money and went there. If I wanted white I'd go to McDonalds. I view Asians teaching English or even blacks in much the same way. When Asian parents pay $$$$$ to send their kids to school they want the western experience. England = white European Anglo Saxons. It does not matter if your granddaddy was born in Nigeria and you were born in London and speak fluent English. You have the language, but not the outward looking experience that people want. they are paying for your language AND your appearance. People get turned down for all kinds of reasons: Too ugly, too fat, too old are among them and typically all 3 are tough to change.


Is this discrimination? Or is it a person's right to demand what and who they choose to spend their hard earned dollars on.

I may be white. But I'm not young and sexy anymore so I feel your pain. But it is what it is.
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