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Teaching in Nam, without a visa?
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OliverN



Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Teaching in Nam, without a visa? Reply with quote

Is it possible? I have a delta..but no degree Question
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skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need a visa to be in the country.

You don't need a work permit. I'm unsure of the exact rules. Usually a degree is needed for a work permit but an impressive CV might allow you to get over this hurdle.

Most people teaching here don't have work permits even if they have degrees.
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OliverN



Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback!

I think it's possible to achieve..but I need an offer before I land...

That is probably unlikely!
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skarper wrote:

Most people teaching here don't have work permits even if they have degrees.


Most people don't have work permits?? That's news to me. Both schools I've worked with have had all their foreign teachers get work permits. What kinds of places are these teachers without permits working for? I'm pretty sure any decent institution will require it, and many offer to cover the costs for their teachers.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: work permits Reply with quote

Despite the recent work permit noise, not much seems to have changed. Estimates I hear from both foreign teachers and VN administrators are that over 80% of foreign teachers are working without a work permit. This is not something everyone wants to brag about of course. If you are in one of the higher tier schools, indeed it is possible that every foreign teacher there has a WP, but that is a pretty small slice of the entire ESL pie. Recent threats (voiced late last year) have pushed the issue to an extent, but it seems that the effect was marginal, it remains to be seen if it will be seriously enforced. From what I am seeing at this time, it looks like it will not, but that is just a guess.
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExpatLuke wrote:
skarper wrote:

Most people teaching here don't have work permits even if they have degrees.


Most people don't have work permits?? That's news to me. Both schools I've worked with have had all their foreign teachers get work permits. What kinds of places are these teachers without permits working for? I'm pretty sure any decent institution will require it, and many offer to cover the costs for their teachers.


You ought to get out more. Go to any bia hoi and you'll meet some disheveled sad case moaning they have to do another visa run as they can't get a WP - no degree, see. Ask them what they did before coming over here; I've heard some pretty entertaining work histories; cleaning gunk out of a bin in a rubber factory was one of the more teaching related stories I can remember
MOD EDIT Pity a Delta holder without a degree can't get a good job over someone with a Fine Arts Degree, but that debate has been done already.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think not having a degree is the main reason most folks do not have a work permit. It seems to me that we have 2 main issues.

Issue 1 - never a truly consistent enforcement regime put into place. Reason? Unsure, but likely relates to issue 2, as well as a few other reasons.

Issue 2 - majority of schools and teachers are lower tier, come and go, fly by night organizations that almost remind me of day labor centers in the states. Average working span of a teacher may be 3 months or so. In these cases, work permits would never get completed, and the turnover and the nature of these places means they never get started.

If the govt really wanted to change the nature of the industry, they could, in this way and in many other ways. Why they don't is mainly speculation. Personally, I would like to see the industry improved, which would require a thoughtful, professional, transparent, even handed approach.
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Riding One



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duplicate post - see post below.

Last edited by Riding One on Fri May 04, 2012 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Riding One



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurtz wrote:

Go to any bia hoi and you'll meet some disheveled sad case moaning they have to do another visa run as they can't get a WP - no degree, see. Ask them what they did before coming over here; I've heard some pretty entertaining work histories; cleaning gunk out of a bin in a rubber factory was one of the more teaching related stories I can remember.


I agree with Kurtz on this. There are some people at the lower-tier schools who will never be able to get a work permit - and for good reason.

But I'd like to add the following reasons why some good smaller schools do not offer to pay for work permits, although they do encourage (not require) their teachers to get them.

1. Transient nature of EFL: constant influx and exodus of qualified EFL teachers that come and go for various reasons such as family issues, cultural difficulties, want to return home, go to another country, or stop teaching.

Smaller schools do not want to pay all of these WP costs and put forth the effort and energy to get a WP for a teacher that may leave shortly.


2. Big schools that have more cash, an experience HR dept, know how to get WPs for teachers and can give them enough hours to sign them up for a 1 year full-time contract or 6 month contract. Smaller schools get hit very hard during the slow-downs if they have instructors on a guaranteed salary.

3. The teacher's perspective. WPs are only valid at one particular school, and in one particular city.

I know several teachers with full qualifications who did all of the leg work and paid all of the costs to get a work permit to be told that if they take a new teaching position across the street that his/her WP is not valid at the new place and they have to start all over again.

In sum, if the authorities wanted the WP to be convenient, logical, and affordable for teachers they WPs would be.

Not everyone can or wants to work at the big chains that can sign up instructors to one-year contracts and pay the costs. These schools are ILA and Language Link.
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