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Teaching in Nam, without a visa?
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OliverN



Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Teaching in Nam, without a visa? Reply with quote

Is it possible? I have a delta..but no degree Question
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skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need a visa to be in the country.

You don't need a work permit. I'm unsure of the exact rules. Usually a degree is needed for a work permit but an impressive CV might allow you to get over this hurdle.

Most people teaching here don't have work permits even if they have degrees.
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OliverN



Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback!

I think it's possible to achieve..but I need an offer before I land...

That is probably unlikely!
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skarper wrote:

Most people teaching here don't have work permits even if they have degrees.


Most people don't have work permits?? That's news to me. Both schools I've worked with have had all their foreign teachers get work permits. What kinds of places are these teachers without permits working for? I'm pretty sure any decent institution will require it, and many offer to cover the costs for their teachers.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 763

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: work permits Reply with quote

Despite the recent work permit noise, not much seems to have changed. Estimates I hear from both foreign teachers and VN administrators are that over 80% of foreign teachers are working without a work permit. This is not something everyone wants to brag about of course. If you are in one of the higher tier schools, indeed it is possible that every foreign teacher there has a WP, but that is a pretty small slice of the entire ESL pie. Recent threats (voiced late last year) have pushed the issue to an extent, but it seems that the effect was marginal, it remains to be seen if it will be seriously enforced. From what I am seeing at this time, it looks like it will not, but that is just a guess.
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 393
Location: off the radar

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExpatLuke wrote:
skarper wrote:

Most people teaching here don't have work permits even if they have degrees.


Most people don't have work permits?? That's news to me. Both schools I've worked with have had all their foreign teachers get work permits. What kinds of places are these teachers without permits working for? I'm pretty sure any decent institution will require it, and many offer to cover the costs for their teachers.


You ought to get out more. Go to any bia hoi and you'll meet some disheveled sad case moaning they have to do another visa run as they can't get a WP - no degree, see. Ask them what they did before coming over here; I've heard some pretty entertaining work histories; cleaning gunk out of a bin in a rubber factory was one of the more teaching related stories I can remember
MOD EDIT Pity a Delta holder without a degree can't get a good job over someone with a Fine Arts Degree, but that debate has been done already.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 763

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think not having a degree is the main reason most folks do not have a work permit. It seems to me that we have 2 main issues.

Issue 1 - never a truly consistent enforcement regime put into place. Reason? Unsure, but likely relates to issue 2, as well as a few other reasons.

Issue 2 - majority of schools and teachers are lower tier, come and go, fly by night organizations that almost remind me of day labor centers in the states. Average working span of a teacher may be 3 months or so. In these cases, work permits would never get completed, and the turnover and the nature of these places means they never get started.

If the govt really wanted to change the nature of the industry, they could, in this way and in many other ways. Why they don't is mainly speculation. Personally, I would like to see the industry improved, which would require a thoughtful, professional, transparent, even handed approach.
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Riding One



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duplicate post - see post below.

Last edited by Riding One on Fri May 04, 2012 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Riding One



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurtz wrote:

Go to any bia hoi and you'll meet some disheveled sad case moaning they have to do another visa run as they can't get a WP - no degree, see. Ask them what they did before coming over here; I've heard some pretty entertaining work histories; cleaning gunk out of a bin in a rubber factory was one of the more teaching related stories I can remember.


I agree with Kurtz on this. There are some people at the lower-tier schools who will never be able to get a work permit - and for good reason.

But I'd like to add the following reasons why some good smaller schools do not offer to pay for work permits, although they do encourage (not require) their teachers to get them.

1. Transient nature of EFL: constant influx and exodus of qualified EFL teachers that come and go for various reasons such as family issues, cultural difficulties, want to return home, go to another country, or stop teaching.

Smaller schools do not want to pay all of these WP costs and put forth the effort and energy to get a WP for a teacher that may leave shortly.


2. Big schools that have more cash, an experience HR dept, know how to get WPs for teachers and can give them enough hours to sign them up for a 1 year full-time contract or 6 month contract. Smaller schools get hit very hard during the slow-downs if they have instructors on a guaranteed salary.

3. The teacher's perspective. WPs are only valid at one particular school, and in one particular city.

I know several teachers with full qualifications who did all of the leg work and paid all of the costs to get a work permit to be told that if they take a new teaching position across the street that his/her WP is not valid at the new place and they have to start all over again.

In sum, if the authorities wanted the WP to be convenient, logical, and affordable for teachers they WPs would be.

Not everyone can or wants to work at the big chains that can sign up instructors to one-year contracts and pay the costs. These schools are ILA and Language Link.
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Oh My God



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 268

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OliverN wrote:
Thanks for the feedback!

I think it's possible to achieve..but I need an offer before I land...

That is probably unlikely!


Naw, you won't need an offer before you land, in fact, you'll be better off waiting until you get here to find a position

BTW, I personally know 2 great teachers with only a High School Diploma

Good Luck!
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Andy123



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have said it before and I will say it again, it is offensive to many Viets to call their country "Nam"'. One simply needs to examine the linguistic root of this word to the historical era.

One poster from the past said that he reserved the right to call Viet Nam as he wished. This statement shows true arrogance and disrespect to Viets. I hope people can be respectful even if they feel or have differing opinions.
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew a school where pretty much every teacher just had a high school diploma, maybe. Not now though.

You need to get your feet on the ground and start knocking on doors. You'll need a resume. Dress for the job. Be respectful and articulate. You'll also need at least two months of living expenses and a ticket home just in case.

If you do this well you'll be getting requests for interviews and demos within a week. Your first pay may be 6 weeks or two months later. Some schools may advance but don't count on it.

If you have no experience teaching then get a TESOL or TEFL from some place which actually includes teaching real students along with observation and feedback. You have a DELTA which is better so you're fine.

For some schools the lack of degree may not matter if everything else is correct.
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 393
Location: off the radar

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VietCanada wrote:
I knew a school where pretty much every teacher just had a high school diploma, maybe. Not now though.

You need to get your feet on the ground and start knocking on doors. You'll need a resume. Dress for the job. Be respectful and articulate. You'll also need at least two months of living expenses and a ticket home just in case.

If you do this well you'll be getting requests for interviews and demos within a week. Your first pay may be 6 weeks or two months later. Some schools may advance but don't count on it.

If you have no experience teaching then get a TESOL or TEFL from some place which actually includes teaching real students along with observation and feedback. You have a DELTA which is better so you're fine.

For some schools the lack of degree may not matter if everything else is correct.


No he doesn't. The C and D are close to each other on the keyboard, but a CELTA and Delta are miles apart.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=95980
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurtz wrote:
VietCanada wrote:
I knew a school where pretty much every teacher just had a high school diploma, maybe. Not now though.

You need to get your feet on the ground and start knocking on doors. You'll need a resume. Dress for the job. Be respectful and articulate. You'll also need at least two months of living expenses and a ticket home just in case.

If you do this well you'll be getting requests for interviews and demos within a week. Your first pay may be 6 weeks or two months later. Some schools may advance but don't count on it.

If you have no experience teaching then get a TESOL or TEFL from some place which actually includes teaching real students along with observation and feedback. You have a DELTA which is better so you're fine.

For some schools the lack of degree may not matter if everything else is correct.


No he doesn't. The C and D are close to each other on the keyboard, but a CELTA and Delta are miles apart.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=95980


Learn something new every day. I stand corrected. D is for diploma and C is for certificate perhaps? If so I can appreciate that there would be a difference. But I do think if the certificate required actual teaching practise that the OP is much better prepared than if he had no classroom experience whatsoever.
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 393
Location: off the radar

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VietCanada wrote:
kurtz wrote:
VietCanada wrote:
I knew a school where pretty much every teacher just had a high school diploma, maybe. Not now though.

You need to get your feet on the ground and start knocking on doors. You'll need a resume. Dress for the job. Be respectful and articulate. You'll also need at least two months of living expenses and a ticket home just in case.

If you do this well you'll be getting requests for interviews and demos within a week. Your first pay may be 6 weeks or two months later. Some schools may advance but don't count on it.

If you have no experience teaching then get a TESOL or TEFL from some place which actually includes teaching real students along with observation and feedback. You have a DELTA which is better so you're fine.

For some schools the lack of degree may not matter if everything else is correct.


No he doesn't. The C and D are close to each other on the keyboard, but a CELTA and Delta are miles apart.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=95980


Learn something new every day. I stand corrected. D is for diploma and C is for certificate perhaps? If so I can appreciate that there would be a difference. But I do think if the certificate required actual teaching practise that the OP is much better prepared than if he had no classroom experience whatsoever.


I meant the OP wrote Delta on the Vietnam thread, but he meant Celta as seen on the Newbie thread.

He'll probably get a job but no damned elusive WP.
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