Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Carlos Fuentes Obituary

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Mexico (off-topic)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
reddevil79



Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 201
Location: Up in them Mixteca Mountains

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:34 am    Post subject: Carlos Fuentes Obituary Reply with quote

From the UK's The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/may/15/carlos-fuentes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Phil_K



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 1825
Location: A World of my Own

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another one?! Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1133
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've very sad about this. While I actually don't like several of his books that I've read. Surprised I first "met" Carlos Fuentes in high school when I was a big fan of the writing of Ambrose Bierce, and so read The Old Gringo and saw the movie. I did really like that book. I also admired Carlos Fuentes as his role of public academic. I think academics have a social responisblity to allow the public to know their opinions on a wide range of subjects, even when those are outside of their field of study. I think Carlos Fuentes was a good example of a well trained mind and a widely read individual. So I appreciated knowing his political opinions, not just his fiction writing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phil_K



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 1825
Location: A World of my Own

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was the other way around for me. I admire anyone who can be successful in the difficult field of writing, but I'm not enamoured of the culture of building up so-called "intellectuals" or "thinkers". I just think that paying undue attention to the opinions of other people, and particularly the almost orgasmic fawning that was going on among journalists and writers last night, is a cop-out. I'd like to think that my own particular brand of original thinking is borne out of my experiences and observations, and as such is as valid that expressed by my fellow human beings.

And for the record, I always found Fuentes to be a little too full of himself, un poco sagrón, if you will. But RIP all the same. I'm sure he and Monsiváis will be happy to resume their "intellectual" ramblings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1133
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some photos from the wake.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18096809

Phil, Fuentes was born into privledge, but instead of using the privledge to only expand his economic capabilities, he also used his position to expand is intellectual capabilities. The vast majority of Mexicans (and people around the world for that matter) to not have the luxury of being able to persue intellectual persuits. You (and I) are more to the privledge side, no matter how much or little cash we have on hand at the moment. So people like you and I can experience and observe the world and come up with our own brand of original thinking. But the masses can not. The masses could just turn to the likes of EPN and allow him to make choices that affect their lives. Or they could turn to people who have had the calling (and the luxury) of a life spent studying and thinking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9401
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a very poor thread to say this, so I am sorry Mr Fuentes...

Quote:
So people like you and I can experience and observe the world and come up with our own brand of original thinking. But the masses can not. The masses could just turn to the likes of EPN and allow him to make choices that affect their lives. Or they could turn to people who have had the calling (and the luxury) of a life spent studying and thinking.


What an elitist point of view. Pity the common man for he cannot think and must but push buttons to make the machine work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1133
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The common man has to find a way to feed his children. It is a very unfortunate situation not one you've ever likely been in. It's not at all elist to excuse them for not being well read. On the contrary It's quite elitist to think you can labour for 14 hours a day and still have time to be so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9401
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MotherF wrote:
The common man has to find a way to feed his children. It is a very unfortunate situation not one you've ever likely been in. It's not at all elist to excuse them for not being well read. On the contrary It's quite elitist to think you can labour for 14 hours a day and still have time to be so.


You have no idea who I am and probably have no business telling anyone who is well read and whether they should be or not.

I'm saying it is quite elitist to think that the common man has no capability to expand on his intellectual capabilities. All men have to feed their children and whether they do it by the sweat of their brow or by the sweat of someone else's may be an election debate, but observing the world is best done with your hands, not from an ivory tower. I find it odd to be to the left of you on such a thing?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1133
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who posts on this board is not poor. You might have or have had cash flow issues. No one from the US or Canada is poor by world standards. You've never been in a situation where you had no choice but to drink water you knew was probably going to make you sick, but it was that or die of dehydration. That's what poor it.

I'm saying that people with the luxury of dedicating their lives to academic persuits have a social responsiblity to get out of the "Ivory Tower" and tell people what they think. That's what Carlos Fuentes did and that's what Phil said he shouldn't do. I said it's one thing for Phil to be able to dismiss Fuentes opinions, Phil has the luxury of researching a wide variety of topics for himself because he has both the time and the economic resources to do so. The vast majority of the 7 billion people on the planet do not have that.

While I support the occupy movement I find the whole 1% Vs 99% movement very ironic and short sighted. The United States and Canada, together have a population of around 352 million, That's 5% of the world's population. Europe's population is about 733 million people. That's 11%.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9401
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough analogy but you and Fuentes fall into the same category as Phil and I. Who is to say that a better course comes from one in the ivory tower that hasn't actually lived the same way, or has had to make the same choices?

Solutions to problems should come from the bottom up, where actual experience lies, and not from the top down. History is rife with top-down ideas that have failed miserably.

Quote:
I'm saying that people with the luxury of dedicating their lives to academic persuits have a social responsiblity to get out of the "Ivory Tower" and tell people what they think.


Nothing wrong with that, but like you say, if you haven't had that actual experience, these are words in the wind. You're looking for a Che but not finding one here...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1133
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy Courchesne wrote:
Fair enough analogy but you and Fuentes fall into the same category as Phil and I.
I never said anything to the contrary. Anyone with access to this forum, on the interent, in English, falls into that category.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Mexico (off-topic) All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC