Job Discussion Forums

[veiledsentiments]

Sorry, but I have always been of the opinion that if one accepts a job in a culture that is different from one's own, one should show respect by sincerely attempting NOT to offend. This is not an insistence that all women throw on an abaya and veil. It is easy enough to use common sense and dress conservatively. Personally I feel that any woman of any nationality that is in public in any Middle Eastern Muslim culture should be mature enough to cover up. By that I mean long skirts, or tunic tops with trousers, and obviously no mini skirts, short shorts, and sleeveless tops.

This arrogant attitude that they have some "right" to dress as they want is an embarrassment. And it increases the amount of harassment that all Western women get because of that attitude. I have also noticed that the women who complain the loudest about men bothering them on the streets are the ones that dress the most like a hooker. If they wish to dress in this style, they should stay in their own country.

VS

[bulgogiboy]

[johnslat]

Dear bulgigoboy,

I guess it all depends on what a society's "values" are (e.g. individual freedom versus religious conformity.)

At any rate, it's that society's choice, and I suspect they are aware of the "consequences" you mentioned. But when an outsider is in that society, he/she, I'd say, needs to abide by their laws and customs - or risk the consequences.

Regards,
John

[bulgogiboy]

[MotherF]

I have heard stories of Arab women being forced to remove their viels when visiting other countries that value facial identification.

I've never visited the Arab world but if I were to do so I would try to find a happy medium--as a young white girl in Latin America I found I was more comfortable it I wasn't drawing undo attention to myself with my attire. I imagine that western women in the Arab world would find that even more so.

(And stuggling to manage my hair in our current swings of differences in humidity in Mexico, I thought to myself that simply keeping one's hair covered all the times must have certain advantages!)

[johnslat]

Dear bulgogiboy,

Vice-versa doesn't work - for the same reasons I mentioned: different societal values.

In "Western society" (warning: broad generalization ahead, ) qualities such as the previously-mentioned individual freedom, tolerance, fairness, etc. are part of the fabric (or, at least, given lip service.") Therefore, according to our "values," we ought to respect, for example, a woman's right to wear, say, a burka.

In Qatar/Saudi society, there's no such "versa." So, anyone gong there needs to know that and not complain because they're not big on individual freedom, tolerance, fairness, etc.

That's just the way it is.

Regards,
John

[bulgogiboy]

[bulgogiboy]

[johnslat]

Dear bulgogiboy,

"I know they have different values, and I respect (at least in terms of 'paying my dues') their values. I also believe we should respect womens' right to wear a bhurka, or not, should they visit 'free' ( a relative term these days I'll concede) western countries. What I'm getting at is the hypocrasy of whiners in places like Qatar who hold a double-standard when it comes to "cultural sensitivity". I agree with you, that is just the way it is, absolutely, but it doesn't mean I have to like it, does it? And, from speaking to my Qatari students, I think a lot of them are actually in admiration of the individual freedom western people enjoy, and Qataris frequently visit places like London so they can enjoy this freedom, but they still hold onto the "not in my backyard" mentality, when it comes to their "pure" Islamic society, the hypocrasy of which annoys me."

No disagreement from me on that - but remember, hypocrisy is the hallmark of societies that try to control what many/most of us would likely regard as "normal" (or at least legitimate) drives and desires. One might even say that hypocrisy can be one of a society's "values."

Regards,
John

P.S. It didn't/doesn't "annoy" me as much as it saddened (and, sometimes, amused) me.

[bulgogiboy]

[johnslat]

Dear bulgogiboy,

You sound like you're getting older - and feeling as Melville did:

"The closing words of the story are the narrator's resigned and pained sigh: 'Ah Bartleby! Ah humanity!' '

Alas poor Bartleby, alas poor humanity.

Regards,
John

[millie18]

Sorry but the major fashion transgressors that stand out not only more closely resemble hookers on the stroll in NYC or London or any other major Western City - they're wearing stuff that is so short and so tight and so transparent they'd be arrested for public indecency in those places if they ventured out to their local grocers in daylight hours when children were present.

Viewing someone's bum cheeks or half way down to their navel with "free swinging" matching pendulums on either side is not my idea of appropriate dress anywhere. Although I have some male colleagues who would "appreciate" the view.

[bulgogiboy]

[millie18]

I too visit the major shopping malls (at least one a week) - try hanging around the grocery section of Carrefour in City Centre (you can't do Villagio anymore) when the ladies of leisure hang out (some literally).

[bulgogiboy]

I'm actually going to go there tomorrow anyway, so will pop over to the grocery section and check out the melons, and so forth. Cheers