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Necessity of English degree?

 
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RollingStone23



Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Necessity of English degree? Reply with quote

My partner and I are hoping to move to Indonesia to teach in a few months, but I'm beginning to get a bit worried: we both have CELTAs and lots of experience but neither of us has a degree in English.

SO, I'm wondering, what's the likelihood of us being able to find work at a reputable school without this? I've read a lot of conflicting information on these threads and was hoping it could be cleared up. Also, I'm curious if anyone's found a job at, say, WSI or TBI recently without an English degree.

Cheers!
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Durian Tango



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 65
Location: HCMC

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi RollingStone23,

I'm afraid the regulation is clear that only teachers with an English degree can legally work in Indonesia and a number of companies, such as WSI and TBI are adhering to the law, as is AIM, I believe. There may be others that I'm unaware of. There are also plenty of schools that are skirting the regulations (I won't speculate on how they are doing it) and hiring teachers without a degree in English (or degree at all!).

If I were you, when interviewing for jobs, I would ask them whether they will take you, even without an English degree, and if they say yes, ask them how they are able to do it and whether it puts you at any risk. If you feel they are doing something shady, you may want to weigh the pros and cons and signing up.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and a number of companies, such as WSI and TBI are adhering to the law, as is AIM, I believe.


Wall Street yes. I wouldn't be too quick to believe what some of the other schools like to claim about being 100% legit.

I could give specific details about how certain schools are getting round the law but it'd serve no purpose plus I've no axe to grind with anyone. Needless to say, it's happening.

I think the biggest cornern isn't how you get your work permit it's if you get one. I know teachers who've worked full 12-month contracts on business visas waiting for a work permit that's never materialised. Having said that, plenty of these teachers are fully aware of the risks and if they choose to take them, then it's up to them.
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Durian Tango



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 65
Location: HCMC

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good call Tudor. In fact, it seems that Wall Street Institute is the ONLY one perhaps adhering to the law (anyone at AIM want to speak up or at any other school that they know of that is sticking to the law?)

If this is the case, then there is very large number of ESL teachers out there with suspicious paperwork on their files. This doesn't seem to be that big of a deal at the moment as you don't hear many problems come of it, but let's hope that the government doesn't make any suprise crackdowns that cause everyone a lot of trouble.

Don't forget too, Ramadan is coming and with it, you can be sure ESL schools across the country will face the annual raids by authorities looking for cash payouts while teachers scramble out windows and down stairwells.
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geoboz



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: English Degree requirement in Indonesia Reply with quote

really good suggestions in this short blog! This is a murky area, as evidenced by the varied responses you might get about the degree requirement. Indonesian work visa officers have, unfortunately, taken this whole thing extremely seriously. Many excellent teachers here have had to leave recently because of this degree thing, even though they are excellent teachers of language. I know several who have not been renewed because of this. Some language schools get around this whole thing by paying "penalties" (read: bribes) to work visa-issuing agents. Wall Street refuses to do this, which is why it has lost several really good teachers over the past year or so. As i understand the situation, and I surely don't corner the market with my assertions here, you might be best served by asking the pointed questions listed above to determine how likely it will be that you as a non-degree bearer will get a KITAS (work visa). If the answer is less than a guaranteed yes (a guarantee that would include return air fare if declined), I would take the job and see what happens.
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kucinggarong



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Re Requirement for an English Major for ESL teachers Reply with quote

Hi There Guru Bahasa English in Indo.

Can anyone provide a link to the actual Indo legislation that relatesfto the employment of foreign ESL teachers in Indo? If it was enacted in 2010 then it would be presumably Undang Undang tahun 2010 nomor bla bla bla or something like that. It would be interesting to see what the legislation actually says. Come to think of it, as a reader of the Indo language press such as Kompas and Jawa pos and Pikiran Rakyat I think I have seen the issue of under-qualified foreign English teachers taking away jobs from local English teachers discussed in these newspapers about 18 months ago, and this could have been concurrent with the legislation being passed. These days there are a lot of good English speakers among the Indo middle class, although it is hard to beat a native speaker as a teacher, other things being equal. Anyway I will try and search the Indonesian language web for the legislation and post it if I can find it! Cheers, KucingG.
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kucinggarong



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: I think I've found the legislation Reply with quote

Actually it seems to be a Peraturan Menteri or ministerial action number 66/2009, which apparently acts to apply legislation that the Mendiknas (education departmental) ready had on the books, and its effect does seem to be pretty much as explained in this forum - i.e. not allow work permits for foreign English language teachers who do not have a bachelor's degree in English, Linguistics etc. Sure will be making it hard for the language schools to recruit!
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 781

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Durian Tango wrote:


I'm afraid the regulation is clear that only teachers with an English degree can legally work in Indonesia and a number of companies, such as WSI and TBI are adhering to the law, as is AIM, I believe.


Imagine the audacity of that. But with all that competitive pay and the unusually hgh standards in Indonesia, I guess they can do that Laughing


Last edited by plumpy nut on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bat_Guano



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Medan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a degree in any specifically English language related discipline (I have a B.A. in Legal Studies from an American university, which I could make a pretty eloquent case for as being at least somewhat indicative of a somewhat advanced proficiency and training in the use of said language [ that is, if anyone actually issuing work visas in Indonesia cared to entertain such stories) .
And I don't have a CELTA or Trinity Cert tesol, just an (notoriously reputed as worthless, which is AlMOST true) online TEFl...

Nevertheless, I am teaching in Indonesia, with a KITAS obtained by my employer and have been for the better part of two years. I work for a National Plus school, not a foreign-owned language mill chain. Whether my school's ability to get me a KITAS comes through bribery, Chinese business acumen or guanxi, possibly relaxed enforcement in the province where I work or other, I don't really need to know or speculate.

I suppose that isn't really all that helpful to someone who wants to come here to teach but doesn't have an English degree, because it certainly doesn't mean that they will be able to do so as well. I'm just saying that in my case, when I first looked into coming here to teach and read about the "new" regulations, I thought that I would not be able to get a legal job teaching in Indonesia. nevertheless, again, the proof is in the selai, which I am eatinng daily for better and/or worse... just saying that by whatever means it is done, it can still be done and is ebing done, at least in some places. My own thinking is that it is probably easier for Indonesian owned private schools and foundations to get away with bending or breaking the rules, than it is for foreign owned ventures, so the advice to infer might be to look into jobs with natPlus schools etc, rather than with language mills, most of which pay pretty crap wages here anyway, other than Wall Street and maybe KELT, from what I know.
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