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Agencies say: Legal to work in Thailand without a degree!
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Superman99



Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Agencies say: Legal to work in Thailand without a degree Reply with quote

I've hever heard that before. Is it possible that the recruiter knows that they can easily hire you illegally therefore thier attitude is what difference does it make if we make a few things up? Recruiters can sort of be like that.[/quote]

I'll definitely look into that, there are many dodgy institutions to be found, regardless of which country it is.

I'll try get hold of one of the teacher's they've already placed in Thailand and ask them some hard hitting questions.
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Superman99



Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Tefl Masters for all the input! ...it's much appreciated.

I believe that Isaan is not a bad place to land a job, what are your thoughts?

I'm really up for teaching any age (looking forward to the experience), but what is a better institution to work in, Government school vs. Language institution? ....and what institution would be more likely to hire a newbie like me? ...ideally I'd like to work 8am - 5pm 5/6 days a week as apposed to working odd hours.
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Superman99



Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the time to go to Thailand is either August or October because it's school holidays over September? (government schools)

If I land a job before the schools close, does that mean the school still pays you for the month that you do not work or do they just simply employ you after the school holidays? ....in which case, if I arrive in September I would need to have enough money to last me 3 months before my first paycheck?
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman99 wrote:
I believe the time to go to Thailand is either August or October because it's school holidays over September? (government schools)

If I land a job before the schools close, does that mean the school still pays you for the month that you do not work or do they just simply employ you after the school holidays? ....in which case, if I arrive in September I would need to have enough money to last me 3 months before my first paycheck?


Thai schools are closed for the month of October.

If you work for an agency (the only ones who will hire an illegal) you won't get paid for your holiday time.

You won't be hired directly by any (k-12) school since you can't get your teacher's license or TCT waiver without a degree.

There are lots of little language academies who will hire you without regard to your status or work permit. You won't make a lot of money (15-25k)

Issan - rural northeast Thailand is what it is. You won't find many rice farmers with enough income to be paying you 400/hr for private lessons but you should be able to find work and it is close to the border for your regular trips to the embassy in Laos for a new visa. It is a LOOOONG way to the beach or the bright lights of BKK.

.
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MaiPenRai



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 380
Location: BKK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
timteach wrote:
Is the Thai government cracking down on those without a degree/will they in the near future?


They are not, nor is it likely that they are going to in the future.


Well the actually do some searches mostly on language schools but also on some government and private schools. In most cases, there is an agreement that the school (usually language schools) gets tipped off a day or 2 in advance and they simply ask all the illegally working teachers to take the day off on the day that the search is scheduled. Ive heard from quite a few people working at language schools that this happens. Like most things in Thailand, the Thai officials have to at least look like they are doing their jobs. So basically you still dont need to worry too much.

Anything is possible in Thailand and it has been possible in the past to get school directors to write letters requesting that degreeless teachers be allowed to continue working at their school. BUT, I doubt that they would go to that hassle for a new teacher they know nothing about. Most agencies expect that you will only work for 6 months - 1 year and so they are not really fussed about living up to grand promises. Once you are settled in at the school and 1 month in, they may say that they are not able to get you a work permit after all. "So sorry. This is Thailand. You have to be flexible in Thailand. Mai pen rai, you go to Laos for new Visa, no problem, but we cant pay you because you will miss work."

Quote:
Issan - rural northeast Thailand is what it is. You won't find many rice farmers with enough income to be paying you 400/hr for private lessons but you should be able to find work and it is close to the border for your regular trips to the embassy in Laos for a new visa. It is a LOOOONG way to the beach or the bright lights of BKK.


Come on now. thats a bit of a generalization. there are plenty of people in Isaan who are doctors, lawyers, politicians, judges, business owners, etc. and they have money to pay for English lessons. Korat is Isaan. Udon Thani is Isaan. Khon Kaen is Isaan, et,etc. These are decent size cities with plenty of money floating around. Years ago when I taught in the area, most of my students had better phones than I did and I had plenty of opportunities to make decent money on the side. It's obviously not the same as Bangkok, but the truth is that there is a lot less teacher competition in most Isaan cities, so if you are any good at marketing yourself, you can make a decent chunk of change on the side.

I know an agency that focuses only on Isaan area, but they require degrees so cant help you there.

[/code]
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Superman99



Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tttompatz wrote:
Superman99 wrote:
I believe the time to go to Thailand is either August or October because it's school holidays over September? (government schools)

If I land a job before the schools close, does that mean the school still pays you for the month that you do not work or do they just simply employ you after the school holidays? ....in which case, if I arrive in September I would need to have enough money to last me 3 months before my first paycheck?


Thai schools are closed for the month of October.

If you work for an agency (the only ones who will hire an illegal) you won't get paid for your holiday time.


You won't be hired directly by any (k-12) school since you can't get your teacher's license or TCT waiver without a degree.

There are lots of little language academies who will hire you without regard to your status or work permit. You won't make a lot of money (15-25k)

Issan - rural northeast Thailand is what it is. You won't find many rice farmers with enough income to be paying you 400/hr for private lessons but you should be able to find work and it is close to the border for your regular trips to the embassy in Laos for a new visa. It is a LOOOONG way to the beach or the bright lights of BKK.
.


Thank you for your input!
So, I guess the idea would be to arrive towards the end of October.
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Superman99



Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaiPenRai wrote:
Quote:
timteach wrote:
Is the Thai government cracking down on those without a degree/will they in the near future?


They are not, nor is it likely that they are going to in the future.


Well the actually do some searches mostly on language schools but also on some government and private schools. In most cases, there is an agreement that the school (usually language schools) gets tipped off a day or 2 in advance and they simply ask all the illegally working teachers to take the day off on the day that the search is scheduled. Ive heard from quite a few people working at language schools that this happens. Like most things in Thailand, the Thai officials have to at least look like they are doing their jobs. So basically you still dont need to worry too much.

Anything is possible in Thailand and it has been possible in the past to get school directors to write letters requesting that degreeless teachers be allowed to continue working at their school. BUT, I doubt that they would go to that hassle for a new teacher they know nothing about. Most agencies expect that you will only work for 6 months - 1 year and so they are not really fussed about living up to grand promises. Once you are settled in at the school and 1 month in, they may say that they are not able to get you a work permit after all. "So sorry. This is Thailand. You have to be flexible in Thailand. Mai pen rai, you go to Laos for new Visa, no problem, but we cant pay you because you will miss work."

Quote:
Issan - rural northeast Thailand is what it is. You won't find many rice farmers with enough income to be paying you 400/hr for private lessons but you should be able to find work and it is close to the border for your regular trips to the embassy in Laos for a new visa. It is a LOOOONG way to the beach or the bright lights of BKK.


Come on now. thats a bit of a generalization. there are plenty of people in Isaan who are doctors, lawyers, politicians, judges, business owners, etc. and they have money to pay for English lessons. Korat is Isaan. Udon Thani is Isaan. Khon Kaen is Isaan, et,etc. These are decent size cities with plenty of money floating around. Years ago when I taught in the area, most of my students had better phones than I did and I had plenty of opportunities to make decent money on the side. It's obviously not the same as Bangkok, but the truth is that there is a lot less teacher competition in most Isaan cities, so if you are any good at marketing yourself, you can make a decent chunk of change on the side.

I know an agency that focuses only on Isaan area, but they require degrees so cant help you there.

[/code]


..Thank you for the positive spin on Isaan Very Happy
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Superman99



Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked the agency that I've been dealing with about the whole 'double entry tourist visa and regular border runs to Laos' thing... to which they have replied:

"With regards to the Visa thing, you would leave here on a double entry tourist visa that would need to be booked for about 50 days, then you would go to the nearest border to get your working visa, the school will give you these papers so you will be able to push for at least like a year working visa or sometimes the school give you like a 3 month probation period where you would have to renew it once and then once they give you their papers then you will do the same thing and go to the border to get a proper working visa "

....I'd appreciate your thoughts on the above!
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman99 wrote:
"With regards to the Visa thing, you would leave here on a double entry tourist visa that would need to be booked for about 50 days, then you would go to the nearest border to get your working visa, the school will give you these papers so you will be able to push for at least like a year working visa or sometimes the school give you like a 3 month probation period where you would have to renew it once and then once they give you their papers then you will do the same thing and go to the border to get a proper working visa "


Does not sound right to me.

If you were legal:
Get a non-b from anywhere they are good for 90 days.
Get the work permit (requires waiver of the teaching license from the Thai Council of Teachers (which requires a degree)).
Back to immigration and extend the non-b to the end of the 1-year contract
Extend the work permit to match the non-b.
end of contract, go to immigration and extend the non-b for another year and then to the labor office to extend the WP to match the extended non-b.

End of your 2nd year - gap-year teachers go home - you get your Thai Culture Course and repeat the extension process for 2 more years.

End of year 4 you write the 1st of 4 required Teacher's tests and get another 2 years. Year 6 = 2nd test... repeat.
Finally get your Teaching license and stay forever.

From the description you have it sounds like you are about to be played like a fiddle by a seller of dreams and TEFL courses. "Teach in exotic places" but you need to take our TEFL course to "be legal".

Bottom line:
*A degree IS required for legal work as a teacher.

*You CAN get work without a degree; it is NOT legal but you can do it, it is commonly done and unless you really tick off the wrong person there are few consequences in the short term (a year or so).

a) Problems arise when you, as a foreigner, try to exercise your "rights" and piss off the wrong Thai. Everybody and their dog gets involved and you sit it out in a detention cell while they figure it out and then send you home
OR
b) You fall for a cute Thai, make a long term relationship out of it and then discover that due to your lack of a degree you are stuck at an entry level job with a family to support, no ability to migrate back to your home country or no ability to transition out to something better ALL THE WHILE facing the same dilemma as <a> above.

Good luck to you.

.
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