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Obamacare and Expats
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: BBB the U.S. can't afford Universal Medicine. Trillion...... Reply with quote

Hello BBB, With a deficit at 1.35 trillion this year the U.S.can't afford Obamacare or Universal health care. You will never understand the American mind set we choose not to depend on government if we don't have to. Again I'm sorry for the topic so called drift, but why waste your time writing about a topic which will be a dead letter within less than 10 months. I know people probably think of me as the Grinch that stole Christmas, but most of the writing here on politics is so far off base when it comes to the states it is a little frightening how people on the forum do not even know the basics of the political system they are talking about or the general nature of the American electorate. You may think you know about the states, but your question about Universal healthcare shows that you do not grasp the individualist streak in the American political system and philosophy. I hope you and everyone enjoys watching the election as I said, before we will be going back to what the Founders intended and away from policies we really can't afford. This quote from John Adams may help you a little" The government that governs least governs best" or "The Power of the government must always be subordinate to the individual, because man will always try to use the power of government to get what he or she wants" Power and freedom were the topics more than 200 years ago and freedom and liberty for the individual was paramount not government power.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: BBB the U.S. can't afford Universal Medicine. Trillion...... Reply with quote

Hello BBB, With a deficit at 1.35 trillion this year the U.S.can't afford Obamacare or Universal health care. You will never understand the American mind set we choose not to depend on government if we don't have to. Again I'm sorry for the topic so called drift, but why waste your time writing about a topic which will be a dead letter within less than 10 months. I know people probably think of me as the Grinch that stole Christmas, but most of the writing here on politics is so far off base when it comes to the states it is a little frightening how people on the forum do not even know the basics of the political system they are talking about or the general nature of the American electorate. You may think you know about the states, but your question about Universal healthcare shows that you do not grasp the individualist streak in the American political system and philosophy. I hope you and everyone enjoys watching the election as I said, before we will be going back to what the Founders intended and away from policies we really can't afford. This quote from John Adams may help you a little" The government that governs least governs best" or "The Power of the government must always be subordinate to the individual, because man will always try to use the power of government to get what he or she wants" Power and freedom were the topics more than 200 years ago and freedom and liberty for the individual was paramount not government power.
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mejms



Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: BBB the U.S. can't afford Universal Medicine. Trillion.. Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:
Hello BBB, With a deficit at 1.35 trillion this year the U.S.can't afford Obamacare or Universal health care. You will never understand the American mind set we choose not to depend on government if we don't have to. Again I'm sorry for the topic so called drift, but why waste your time writing about a topic which will be a dead letter within less than 10 months. I know people probably think of me as the Grinch that stole Christmas, but most of the writing here on politics is so far off base when it comes to the states it is a little frightening how people on the forum do not even know the basics of the political system they are talking about or the general nature of the American electorate. You may think you know about the states, but your question about Universal healthcare shows that you do not grasp the individualist streak in the American political system and philosophy. I hope you and everyone enjoys watching the election as I said, before we will be going back to what the Founders intended and away from policies we really can't afford. This quote from John Adams may help you a little" The government that governs least governs best" or "The Power of the government must always be subordinate to the individual, because man will always try to use the power of government to get what he or she wants" Power and freedom were the topics more than 200 years ago and freedom and liberty for the individual was paramount not government power.


Not to take away anything from what you have to say, but it's hard to read your posts. Your writing really needs to be cleaned up.
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Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The government that governs least governs best" or "The Power of the government must always be subordinate to the individual, because man will always try to use the power of government to get what he or she wants" Power and freedom were the topics more than 200 years ago and freedom and liberty for the individual was paramount not government power.

Sweeping statements, like these, don't answer the question how Americans, especially those with chronic or pre-existing conditions, are to get access to affordable health care. Other countries have found solutions, but the U.S. is still struggling with it.

It seems to me you're right to point to the ideologies contained in those quotes as the source of the difficulty because they do stand in the way of finding practical solutions for this particular problem. However, even to speak of "this particular problem," as I just did, is not where the discussion has to start in the U.S., because as of yet there is no consensus to the effect that there is a problem with access to affordable health care in the U.S.
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bexarwithme



Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it will be very difficult to repeal the ACA even if Romney is elected. There won't likely be a big enough shift in the party compositions in Congress for one party to enforce a major change on the other. One of our greatest shames is the lack of affordable health care. Americans may like to think of themselves as rugged individualists that don't want central government control of their life but the genie is now out of the bottle. I think a lot of people are going to be curious to see what benefits the law may bring them in the next few years. I have great health insurance here and recently had a health scare that left me very frightened. I can't imagine the additional stress similar people without insurance would face contemplating how to pay for possible treatments and possibly having to go bankrupt. I think promising to roll back ACA will not be as winning an issue as the republicans imagine. Their big miscalculation is not offering anything to replace ACA with. The complexity of the issue is mind boggling!

Last edited by bexarwithme on Tue May 06, 2014 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Solutions on health care.................................... Reply with quote

Congress doesn't have to change by much to repeal Obamacare. In the Senate a simple majority can repeal Obamacare, because it was passed under reconciliation rules which can bypass the usual 60 vote rule to avoid a filibuster only bills passed by reconciliation can be repealed by a simple 51 vote majority. Sorry to get so technical, but Obamacare is easily repealed with a new majority in the Senate. As far as a solution to healthcare costs the Republicans have put out solutions there just not government solutions. Sale of health insurance across state lines, malpractice insurance reform a major factor in the cost of healthcare along with allowing patients to get health care with preexisting conditions etc. Also allowing those that can't afford it to go to the hospital and the cost would be spread over and through the whole system. So it is possible to do health insurance reform without the government controlling it. As I said above Obamacare can be repealed, because of how it originally passed the Senate. By this time next year Obamacare will be history. Again the American answer to affordable healthcare will come mainly through a market solution with as little government involvement as possible the U.S. isn't Europe thank G-D look at Europe or at least several major countries in Europe failing mostly, because they created benefits they can't afford. I believe the great debate of our time is freedom and liberty vs. the state and it's power. In the U.S. we will choose freedom and liberty not government power. The quote from John Adams is not a problem, but the solution to this problem affordable healthcare will come through limited government solutions as I mentioned above. Europe chose government over freedom and liberty and they are now paying the price. Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland need I say more all either bankrupt or nearly so. Europeans thought they could get something for nouthing, but we all know that philosophy leads to bankruptcy. Again thanks for the posts and the exchange of ideas. I welcome the debate.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 844

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't really answer my question about why people are opposed to everyone having access to health care. The US can't afford lots of things, but that has not stopped the government from going ahead with them in the past. And please do not patronize me by telling me I will never understand the US mindset. You know nothing about me, where I have lived, or my background, so please refrain from acting like you do.
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EFLeducator



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
You didn't really answer my question about why people are opposed to everyone having access to health care. The US can't afford lots of things, but that has not stopped the government from going ahead with them in the past. And please do not patronize me by telling me I will never understand the US mindset. You know nothing about me, where I have lived, or my background, so please refrain from acting like you do.


I have to agree with our fellow TEFLer with regards to the "mindset".


Last edited by EFLeducator on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EFLeducator



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Solutions on health care................................ Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:
Europe chose government over freedom and liberty and they are now paying the price. Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland need I say more all either bankrupt or nearly so. Europeans thought they could get something for nouthing, but we all know that philosophy leads to bankruptcy.


Right!
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 844

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: Solutions on health care................................ Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:
Europe chose government over freedom and liberty and they are now paying the price. Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland need I say more all either bankrupt or nearly so. Europeans thought they could get something for nouthing, but we all know that philosophy leads to bankruptcy.


You left out all the Scandinavian countries, which have the lowest crime, and highest standard of living in the world, yet also have :::::gasp::::: universal healthcare. And I am not sure what you mean about those countries having no freedom or liberty. And how much freedom is there in the US, where increasingly invasive laws are passed everyday. And trying expressing an opinion that varies from the mainstream and tell me how fast YOUR freedom doesn't count at all. Hypocritical and ironic that those who yell the loudest about "freedom" are the first to tell you to shut up if you dare actually EXERCISE it.....
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:22 am    Post subject: BBB your right.............................................. Reply with quote

BBB your right I do not know you from Eve, but from what you have written on this forum you seem to be left of center in your politics and certainly your support for Obrador puts you left of any mainstream politician in the U.S. and that includes Nancy Pelosi. From that I may have deduced too much. In our political discussions you do not seem to get the difference between left in the U.S. and left every where else. There is a difference, you know? As far as the U.S. not being able to afford National Health insurance 15.8 trillion in debt makes it impossible. Yes the U.S. used to spend on everything even if it was unaffordable, but the debt situation makes that impossible now. The second part of this is Liberty and Freedom are at stake and we have to make a stand somewhere to stop the shredding of the U.S. Constitution and health care is as good a place to start as any, also your right some people on the right are ready to shred our rights in the name of security and there I support you completely. The Patriot Act and other type legislation needs to be repealed along with Obama care.

As far as the Scandinavian countries are concerned. The only time that Universal care has seemed to work although in the last few years even the Nordic countries have begun to trim some of these benefits including stopping free eye care and glasses once your over 21. These countries are homogeneous in ethic background and small in size and population which seems to help and they seem not to mind other people telling them which doctor they can see and other issues like that. Outside of Scandinavia cradle to grave welfare systems are either bankrupt or being pulled back such as in Germany or are near bankruptcy see France and it's recent downgrade by the financial rating services. Again freedom and liberty and healthcare can coincide see the healthcare proposals put out by the House of Representatives and Paul Ryan. I hope that answers a lot of your questions.


By the way if some countries want Universal medical coverage and they can afford it more power to them, but at the same time if the U.S, decides against it why shouldn't that be good enough for the world each country to there own choices.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:34 am    Post subject: EFL Educator................................................ Reply with quote

Thanks for the support. I am very excited about the prospects of the up coming elections. We finally have the chance to reform all of the federal spending programs which means that we may have seen the last of the ultra liberals such as Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. The democrats maybe out of power depending on Romney's success with the economy for 20 years or more that would put the country back on the path intended by the founders and away from the failed policies which brought bankruptcy to so many European countries see my post above for the names of the countries Exclamation
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: EFL Educator............................................... Reply with quote

EFL Educator, The problem with, so many people who seem to want to change the subject or muddy the waters is that most people can see right through it. When you write with little or no knowledge of the political system your talking about it comes through. I did the same thing earlier in another part of this forum and I was called out and rightly so. I should have known more about Mexican politics, before I posted. The problem is that this forum isn't a two way street when people here say things that are patently wrong or misinformed if you call them out they use the pot calling the kettle black tactics so they do not have to answer your questions. It really doesn't matter, because you and I know EFL Educator that the left is about to lose big time in the U.S. and the Founders system will have won the day again. It's funny every time the left tries to MANGLE the American Constitutional system the Founders always win, because they foresaw every tactic the left would try to use to ruin the U.S.A. and so far it's Founders 6-0 the Socialists just don't get it 78 Ultra Smart people vs. marx, lenin, stalin, engels , follette et al. The Founders could have built a system half as brilliant and still beaten these leftists hands down. Most of the world wants the U.S. to fail that is why they are openly cheering for Obama, but as I said, before the Founders knew their enemies very well after all they saw the mess in Europe and wanted no part of that mess coming to the U.S. Well, I think I might have given enough explanation for now Exclamation

Thanks,

EFL Educator

P.S. Obama used health care this time in trying to MANGLE the U.S. Constitutional system. He took an oath "To preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States", but he has tried to subvert it all along the way.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 844

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get that you don't understand the political spectrum. It is not something you can move about and say the left in the US is different from the left in another country. Do some reading on politics, it is static, not movable. Actually, his name is Lopez Obrador, not Obrador. In Mexico people retain both their father's last name and the mother's, with the father's going first, and the mother's going second. Obrador was his mother's last name. And he is not particularly a leftist, either, for that matter, really rather moderate, in the grand scheme of things.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:58 am    Post subject: BBB......................................................... Reply with quote

First I get your point Lopez Obrador. You can say that I do not understand politics all you want, but politics isn't static there are many different polities throughout the world and YES!!! In some of them their political spectrum is different from other countries political spectrums and from the general world political spectrum. First if you had just taken the time to read the editorial pages of most of the papers in the U.S. and the syndicated columnists you would have gotten a good idea how the American people percieve their system and the bounds of their political spectrum. The founders such as John Adams, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson set up specific rules of the game laid out in such works as the Federalist Papers the Declaration of Indepedence and the U.S. Constitution with the Bill of Rights. If you want to learn about the U.S. political system a biography of these 3 men would be a good start they represent the right, center and left of the U.S. political spectrum. Reading the books and documents listed also would help you. Also, if you wanted you could read a short book called The Second Treatise of Government written by an English philosopher and revolutionary John Locke which was the underpinning for the political philosophy of the U.S. Founders.

You came after me earlier on this forum for not knowing enough about the Mexican political system, because I couldn't place Lopez Obrador and his party the PRD well you were right and I'm doing the same thing here. In contemporary politics Clinton and Obama are nowhere close on the U.S. spectrum one is a centrist the other is so far out in left field you couldn't find him even with a spyglass. The boundries of the U.S. system was/is clearly marked. That is why Obama is in so much trouble. Obamacare his Apolgogy tours have put him outside of those clearly marked boundries that is why he will lose in November. As far as other countries England, Australia and New Zealand each have unique political spectrums that are different from the general world spectrum. Different countries different spectrums some do use the general spectrum, but not the countries mentioned above politics is fluid not static what was left or right 30 years ago changes. Your right I do not know you only from your posts, but I do know this along with English my University degree was in history with a emphasis on American and English history and I know the Founders and their philosophy and the system they set up with a different and fluid political spectrum plus I have voted for 8 presidents and other officials check out what I gave you above, before you tell me I'm wrong. You were right when I didn't know enough about the Mexican political system to write about it. The same should go for others who do not know about other political systems and believe me you do not know about the politics and the philosophy behind the poltics of the U.S. I will leave you with a quote " The government that governs least governs best" John Adams in his inaugrual address, before the Congress of the U.S. March, 1797. This quote tells you all you need to know about the American political system, but go on and look at these people and their words and then tell me that politics and any political spectrum is static if you can still say that after reading about these people then I just give up and will move along politics is about movement within certain boundries and boundries are different in differnt places and polities. That is enough for now.
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