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US School System Drives Students Mad?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12904
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of the Second Amendment, I came across this paper, which I think does a good job of interpreting the actual meaning, given the context of the time and language then.

But, of course, the major reason I like it is because it agrees with me Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Guns and Grammar: the Linguistics of the Second Amendment
Dennis Baron

http://www.english.illinois.edu/-people-/faculty/debaron/essays/guns.pdf

Regards,
John
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Steinmann



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 254
Location: In the frozen north

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
Everyone in America knows that a total ban on guns will never happen.
Here in the UK, we are stunned.


Just as stunned as the redcoats were to find themselves beaten from North America, I'll bet. Where do you think our personal freedom to keep guns came from?
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steinmann wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
Everyone in America knows that a total ban on guns will never happen.
Here in the UK, we are stunned.


Just as stunned as the redcoats were to find themselves beaten from North America, I'll bet. Where do you think our personal freedom to keep guns came from?


It came from the wisdom and foresight of our founding fathers--men who also believed they could steal land, enslave another race of people, and treat women as second class citizens. Ideas to live by, you betcha!

.
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Steinmann



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 254
Location: In the frozen north

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xie Lin wrote:
Steinmann wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
Everyone in America knows that a total ban on guns will never happen.
Here in the UK, we are stunned.


Just as stunned as the redcoats were to find themselves beaten from North America, I'll bet. Where do you think our personal freedom to keep guns came from?


It came from the wisdom and foresight of our founding fathers--men who also believed they could steal land, enslave another race of people, and treat women as second class citizens. Ideas to live by, you betcha!

.


Yeah, yeah...that's old news. We've fixed all of that. We still have our guns, though.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12904
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Steinmann,

"It came from the wisdom and foresight of our founding fathers--men who also believed they could steal land, enslave another race of people, and treat women as second class citizens. Ideas to live by, you betcha!"

"Yeah, yeah...that's old news. We've fixed all of that"

Thank God - now I can go onto the Navajo reservations here in New Mexico and spread the good news. Hey. guys, remember when we stole your land? Well, we've fixed all that now.

And I believe there are more than a few women that will be surprised to hear that they're no longer treated, at least in some respects, as second-class citizens.

“Nationwide, across all occupations, women still earn just 77 cents for every dollar that men make, but the gap is highest on Wall Street, where women only get between 55 and 62 cents for every dollar their male colleagues earn.”

Finally, a question: Would you go (or have you gone) to teach in any land where you couldn't own a gun?

Regards,
John
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12499
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's return to the "Status Quo Ante" circa 1500.
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EFLeducator



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Thank God - now I can go onto the Navajo reservations here in New Mexico and spread the good news. Hey. guys, remember when we stole your land? Well, we've fixed all that now.

And I believe there are more than a few women that will be surprised to hear that they're no longer treated, at least in some respects, as second-class citizens.


Anti-America mentality coming from a TEFLer!? I'm shocked!



Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12904
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear EFLeducator,

Anti-American? Not at all.

Anti-unethical/immoral? Definitely.

However, since you're a Romney supporter, I can understand why that might confuse you Very Happy.

Regards,
John
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Steinmann



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 254
Location: In the frozen north

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Thank God - now I can go onto the Navajo reservations here in New Mexico and spread the good news. Hey. guys, remember when we stole your land? Well, we've fixed all that now.

I thought that might come up. Do we need to go back to all conquered peoples throughout history and "fix" the situation? I say no. That one is rather more recent than others, but it's still history. Live in the now, man. The same could be said about slavery, BTW.

johnslat wrote:
And I believe there are more than a few women that will be surprised to hear that they're no longer treated, at least in some respects, as second-class citizens.

We should elect some gal president, then. White male guilt would then be officially and finally assuaged. Otherwise, I would say women generally are able to do just fine in the US of A (should they so choose).

johnslat wrote:
Finally, a question: Would you go (or have you gone) to teach in any land where you couldn't own a gun?

I haven't taught anywhere I couldn't own a gun, but I've certainly lived in a few places where I couldn't do so. No problem with that - law of the land and all. I was never in fear of being shot there (other than by the local government). Here, the feel of my good ol' slabsides at my side makes me feel safer, and I damn sure carry wherever I can. It's a situational thing.

Postscript ~ Johnslat, FWIW you should know that I do consider you one of the most levelheaded, helpful, and reasonable fellows on this board. Much gratitude for your discourse. You always make me think hard.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12904
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Steinmann,

Do we need to go back to all conquered peoples throughout history and "fix" the situation?"

Thanks for your reply - but, you know, you're the one who said we'd "fixed all that." Very Happy

We can never "fix" the past, of course - at least not until time travel is invented. I try to "live in the now," especially since, at my age, my future has shrunken considerably. But as Faulkner so well put it:

"The past is never dead. It's not even past."

I really do believe that; the older I get, the more I see its truth.

Regarding the status of women, we've certainly come a long way (especially as compared to, say, Saudi), but I think you might agree that there's still a way to go.

I guess we'll never agree, though, about weapons and the 2nd Amendment. However, I think you can feel safe about being able to stick to your guns; I can't foresee a time when "the right to bear arms" will be curtailed in the slightest here in the US.

And thanks for your P.S. Smile

Regards,
John
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wesharris



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xie Lin wrote:
Steinmann wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
Everyone in America knows that a total ban on guns will never happen.
Here in the UK, we are stunned.


Just as stunned as the redcoats were to find themselves beaten from North America, I'll bet. Where do you think our personal freedom to keep guns came from?


It came from the wisdom and foresight of our founding fathers--men who also believed they could steal land, enslave another race of people, and treat women as second class citizens. Ideas to live by, you betcha!

.

Someone's a bit jaded about conquest, now aren't we?
Humanity endures because it changes, change often times
comes in the form of war.
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Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 762
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guns don't kill crowds of innocent people; maniacs with easy access to military-grade weapons do.

No hunter, and nobody interested purely in self-defence, needs a semi-automatic rifle with a 100-round magazine. Gun control will not stop the mad and the bad from murdering their fellows. But surely, a better vetting procedure and stricter background checks could have been done?

James Holmes, the killer at the cinema in Colorado, was apparently receiving psychiatric treatment for schizophrenia.

Between 1994 and 2004 the sale of assault weapons, including the AR-15 that Holmes reportedly used, and magazines holding more than 10 bullets were banned. Had those restrictions still been in force, fewer might have died.

Mr Obama dispensed a dollop of rhetoric, condoled with the victims' families and proposed to do precisely nothing about the easy availability of guns in America. At the other end of the country, Mitt Romney proposed precisely nothing either, even though as governor of Massachusetts he once presided over one of the tightest gun-control regimes in the union.

Two-thirds of all murders in America involve guns leading to about 9,000 deaths a year.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9786
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

US School System Drives Students Mad?

But, but, but, best education in the world? At least that what is said on these boards...
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Galileo



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wangdaning wrote:
I don't think the argument is that one person will be a hero.

If more people carried guns, then people would be less likely to use them for these sorts of things.

One psycho with a gun walks into a room of twenty without guns. The psycho has the ability to injure many.

One psycho with a gun walks into a room of twenty with quite a few also carrying guns. The psycho is just your average psycho.

So the solution is to have more shootouts between the good guys and the bad guys? What if the other gun owners in the room mistake you for the psycho and start firing at you? There are too many things that could go wrong in the mass confusion. People never do that well against the killer in mock mass shootings-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12904
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an example of the firearm skills of those who pack heat in theaters:

"SPARKS, Nev. – Police say a man accidentally shot himself in the buttocks at a Nevada movie theater during a showing of "The Bourne Legacy."
Police in Sparks, Nev., say the 56-year-old man's injuries are not life-threatening and no others were hurt.
Authorities say the man had a permit to carry a concealed firearm. The man told officers the gun fell from his pocket Tuesday night as he was adjusting himself in the seat and that it discharged when it dropped to the floor."


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/15/man-accidentally-shoots-self-in-nevada-movie-theater/#ixzz240R9vzxJ

Regards,
John
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