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Japan. Glenski, Kent and others-Second Annual conference

 
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M.



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Moskva

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:27 am    Post subject: Japan. Glenski, Kent and others-Second Annual conference Reply with quote

Ok,

If I apply myself . How long till I can start rapping a bit in Japanese, once I Move there. And glenski, where are you at in Japan.

How about The Amalfi coast in Italy. for the second conference. Nice beach, and close to Pompeii, Sorrento and Napoli.........
M.

P.S. Kent could you pass me a peroschki........M.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If I apply myself . How long till I can start rapping a bit in Japanese


Assuming you know absolutely no Japanese right now...I'd say with some serious effort on your own (no tutors, no university classes, no extension courses, etc.), you should be able to mutter some fairly distinct, although extremely basic sentences in a couple of months. Holding a conversation? Plan on at least a year.

Obviously, with tutoring, you'll learn much faster.

I live in Sapporo, on the northern island of Hokkaido.
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M.



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Moskva

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 4:36 pm    Post subject: Japan... Reply with quote

Glenski,

bleieve it or not. That is where I would like to live in Japan. I tend to like the colder climates. And after Russia and Germany...I would not look forward to the heat of southern Japan. Any schools or posts you here of by word of mouth would be appreciated. I have 6 years teaching.

M.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only place you can get solid info on jobs is Hokkaido Insider by Ken Hartmann. Check out his web site and subscription service.
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Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2118
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 6:37 am    Post subject: Japanese for beginners! Reply with quote

Hello "M":

Sorry for the late reply. Cool

To your question: I would be a bit more optimistic than Glenski in terms of how quickly you can pick up some basic spoken Japanese. If you have linguistic talent and make a sincere effort, I'd guess you'll be speaking in basic phrases within a few weeks.

As for reading and writing in Japanese; that's an entirely different ball of wax. With 3 distinct alphabets, (Kanji, Hirakana & Katakana) learning to read and write in Japanese is a life-long pursuit. It took me 2 weeks just to learn how to spell my name.

And don't forget to visit the Japan Forum with specific questions. There are so many good people down there who will gladly lend you a hand. As they say in Japanese: "Ganbatte masu!" (Good luck!)

Regards,
kENt-O-Chan
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Lucy Snow



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 218
Location: US

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:10 am    Post subject: keNt-o-chan Reply with quote

Um, keNt, if I remember correctly, "chan" is only used by females.

I think you'd have to say "keNt-o-kun," unless there's something you're hiding....
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:30 am    Post subject: chan is not reserved for women Reply with quote

Lucy,

I used to think the same thing about the use of "chan". It's not just for females. Boys in school are often labeled with "kun", of course, but in very close situations, boys and men can be called NAME + chan.

My wife's (Japanese) uncles call me that. (I was stunned the 1st time.)
A Japanese friend calls her husband that.
My female Japanese co-worker calls her boyfriend that.
Some kids call their father that.
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guest of Japan



Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although it is strange for Kent to call himself "chan," it isn't unusual for men to be referred my that moniker by women.
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Celeste



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Fukuoka City, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh! Learn something new every day. I will start calling my husband Steven-chan and see how people react! M.- I have been here for 8 months and I am starting to be able to understand the gist of what people are saying to me most of the time. If they speak slowly and use small words, I can follow the whole conversation and respond. I have been taking a 1hour class once a week for 7 months. I have not been studying very hard because I am busy working. If you study harder, you may be able to accomplish more, but I would plan on spending about a year before you feel conversant in Japanese, and another2-3 years before you are fluent enough to do things like read books, watch movies in Japanese, attend a lecture, etc.
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Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2118
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:00 am    Post subject: the great debate! Reply with quote

Hello People:

I see I've stirred up the great 'chan-kun-san' debate. Didn't mean to, really. Cool

With only 2 years in Japan under my belt, I will certainly defer to Glenski et al. on this one, but here's what I was told by good friends and students while living there:

1. 'chan' is a neutral and endearing term used mainly to refer to young girls. It is also very commonly used when refering to boys and close friends, as it reveals the informal nature of the relationship, or the age of the person in question. i.e., 'chan' is usually used for kids!

2. 'kun' is used as an endearing term for boys and young men.

3. 'san' is the highest form of respect one can confer on another, and should never be used when refering to oneself. i.e., if I had called myself Kent-O-san, it would have been rather rude.

So ... by calling myself Kent-O-chan in my first post, I was actually 'humbling' myself in a linguistic sense. Anyway, feel free to call me Kent-O-san anytime you wish! Very Happy I will respond to anything that even remotely resembles 'kEnT'.

Warm regards to all,
keNt
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Lucy Snow



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 218
Location: US

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand corrected. Embarassed Thank you all for setting me straight.
I had asked about the "chan - kun" thing while living in Japan, and I was told (by a Japanese) that "chan" was generally only used for children (of both sexes) and adult women.

I run into the same thing here in Hungary--people will tell me solemnly that a certain form of greeting is only used by men to women, then I hear women saying it to my male butcher.

I think it's time for me to move back to an English speaking country...or quit believing native speakers when they try to explain their language to me!
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1304
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: the great debate! Reply with quote

Kent F. Kruhoeffer wrote:


3. 'san' is the highest form of respect one can confer on another, and should never be used when refering to oneself. i.e., if I had called myself Kent-O-san, it would have been rather rude.

So ... by calling myself Kent-O-chan in my first post, I was actually 'humbling' myself in a linguistic sense. Anyway, feel free to call me Kent-O-san anytime you wish! :D I will respond to anything that even remotely resembles 'kEnT'.




Applying *any* of the honorifics to yourself is downright rude, whether it be san, chan or kun.

"Sama" is the highest form of honorifc, not san. San is the generic equivilent of 'Mrs' or 'Mr' etc. - you hear it all the time. The various others you might run in to ('sensei' being the obvious one) are basically on a different scale from the rest.



As for learning, well, if you have a decent range of self-study material, practice it and get out there and use it then you should be functionally fluent for day to day life within a year, easily. I know quite a few people that are going for the JLPT level 2 tests after two-three years. Japanese isn't all that difficult except for kanji (which are just time consuming to learn), generally.
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Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2118
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:43 am    Post subject: arigato gozaimasu! Reply with quote

Dear G Cthulhu-sensei:

Thanks for setting us all straight on this one! In the 2 years I lived in Japan, I can't remember ever hearing the term 'sama'. Maybe no one respected me well enough to tell me about it?

Anyway; like dear Lucy Snow before me, I stand corrected. I also sit corrected, and sometimes I even correct while sitting. Very Happy

Regards,
kEnt
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Lucy Snow



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 218
Location: US

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One time a street vendor called me "gaijin sama" - how would you translate that? "Honorable Outsider?"
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