Job Discussion Forums

[robinnn]

Hi

Sent my CV to this school and they offered me an interview. Thought I should check them out first though.

Any experiences with them?

[Grimace420]

Can't comment on the school, but have you been to Zaragoza? I would visit the place to decide if it's where you'd want to live before accepting anything. Luckily it is well connected to both Madrid and Barcelona by the AVE.

[robinnn]

Actually counting on it not being as nice as Madrid or Barcelona. If I find it to be nicer than the West Midlands it'll be fine to start with. If not, it's well connected to most other major cities as you said.

[shiningstar21]

I just an interview with them too.

Been looking for reviews everywhere, but can't seem to find anything!

[smccartney]

I worked at Number 16 in 2010/11.

Positives;

Zaragoza is a beautiful city, ryanair fly there and it's connected to barca and Madrid by AVE.
You will probably get enough hours.

Negatives;;

The owner, Sergio, can not be trusted. You should never take his word for anything.
He will keep your holiday pay as a bribe not to leave until he wats you to. The will deduct money from your holiday pay and final salary for so called training if you leave.
He insists you stand at all times. He actually removed teachers' chairs from the classrooms, which have glass partitions so he can check. He wants you to make students uncomfortable and under pressure. It's a direct method called "Speak your Mind" , you parrot questions, the students parrot answers, over and over and over again!
If Andrew is still the DoS you'll get no support or help from him.
They don't insist on CELTA or any Tefl so attract students and unemployed bar staff etc.

[spiral78]

They don't want trained teachers because those with training know that this method is nearly useless....

However, another plus is that there is likely no prep involved (this is usually one of the benefits of working at a 'method' school like Berlitz - they pay less than most schools around, but it's seriously less work for the teacher as well).

[smccartney]

Yes, as you say, less preparation time but that leads to a more stressful lesson. The method also creates an unacceptable level of TTT and one trick pony error correction. Teachers are forced to behave like robots and to dish out immediate error correction without allowing the student an opportunity to self correct.
I prefer investing 30 minutes to produce a communicative lesson which is both fun and effective. Fortunately for me, I worked for other, and in my opinion, better schools, where using your imagination and teaching skills to produce interesting, fun and rewarding lessons is encouraged, not forbidden.

BTW

I've just received the following threatening email from them;

Hello Stephen,

I've been asked to inform you that if you persist in writing libelous comments about Number 16 and its staff on internet forums you will be sued. Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but you should be clear about what's fact and what is your opinion or interpretation of events.

Sincerely,

--

Andrew Turner

[spiral78]

Oh, I wasn't advocating in favour of this or any other method school.

Further, the email you cite is really disturbing.

I know absolutely nothing about this particular school and never pretended to, but personally I'd stay away from all the 'method' schools on principle. They basically really just don't look good on a CV for later jobs, and they typically use the 'less prep' thing to justify lower wages than normal for an area.

[jjames]

Came across this posting and must say I’m surprised. In my own experience SpeakYourMind was a very teacher-friendly and student-friendly learning programme. Students got a lot out of it and teaching was pretty enjoyable most of the time and certainly not for dummies. Maybe different schools use it in different ways – I never had to stand up all the time or coach parrots.

[spiral78]

Here is some interesting further discussion on the topic from an old thread. It might be helpful in terms of putting things into perspective:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=621603&highlight=#621603

[smccartney]

It probably depends jjames, I've met Ian, the guy behind the Speak your Mind method, he's a very nice fella. As direct methods go his interpretation of his method is not too bad. But, in my opinion, some SYM schools interpret the method differently. Unfortunately, Number 16 get rid of any good bits and concentrate on the bad bits. Ahem, in my opinion! lol

Perhaps Andrew will stop sending me threatening emails, telling me to shut up, and enter this debate to give his opinion, if Serigo allows him the luxury of an opinion!

[robinnn]

Been offline a while so couldn`t respond to anything. Thanks for your input about the school. I got a job with another school who are really great to work for so far. Zaragoza`s a great city too. Would recommend it to anyone.

[sergiosampietro]

Dear forum members,
I’m pleased to be able to take an active part in this forum.
Firstly, as the person ultimately responsible for Number 16, I would like to apologize to, and thank, the following people: more than 3,500 students who have passed through our classrooms receiving classes with the Speak Your Mind method during its three years of existence; the Human Resources departments of some of the finest companies operating in Spain, who have placed their trust in Number 16 School; the writer of the Speak Your Mind method , who has helped so many people enjoy achieving their English language objectives; and especially those teachers who have formed part of the school, including the 25 full-time teachers who currently make up the Number 16 teaching-staff and who give 100% for the school. In short, everyone who has contributed to making Number 16 School the leading English academy in Zaragoza and one of the most prestigious schools in the field.

Regarding smmcartney, I can only regret the opinions you hold, given that during your time as a teacher at Number 16 you were a great professional and one of the best teachers to give class in our school. In our opinion you made exceptional use of the Speak Your Mind method, something borne out by the fact that even today many students still remember and ask about you. I regret that you hold those opinions about aspects that helped you shine as a teacher.
You have my direct contact details and I hereby invite you to make use of them to communicate whatever opinions you see fit about me or the company I represent, and it will be my pleasure to serve you, but I ask you to desist from your attempts to publicly damage the image of the many professionals whom you refer to in your comments.

Robin, my sincere congratulations for having found a teaching job in the City of Zaragoza, I’m sure you will have a great time in this wonderful city, and don’t hesitate to contact us if we can help you in any way.

[smccartney]

Hi Serigo,

Speak Your Mind or more specifically the interpretation of it that you tried to force on us did not help me shine as a teacher. I shone as a teacher despite it and because of what I learnt during my CELTA course.

People learn in different ways, visual, auditory, kinesthetic or a combination of two or more. SYM can work very well for small percentage of students. I can remember 2 students in particular who progressed very quickly but many more were ignored. A properly trained teacher will be aware of this and adapt material to suit. (school permitting)

It was very difficult to help visual and impossible to teach kinesthetic learners at your school. This situation could have been improved greatly by adding whiteboards to allow visual explanations of verb tenses using form, timelines etc. I often helped students this way using scraps of paper when no one was watching!

The addition of the self-study grammar book, although not perfect, was a help but it was obvious its introduction was purely profit motivated.

In short, the Number 16 version of SYM tries to be a one-size-fits-all teaching method and fails. The method does have its strengths but your control-freak inspired modifications diminish these. I sometimes use a little bit of the method as a small part of an overall class.

Stephen

[PaulD]

Hi everybody.
I found this online and thought I´d add to it. I´m not impressed by some of the comments. I have worked here and this makes me look like I don´t know what I´m doing. I was working with the SYM method as well as doing business and exams.
Working with SYM really helped me develop as a teacher. The method focuses on speaking: you´re like a director of a conversation, helping students use new vocabulary, grammar and structures in easy natural ways.
While working at Number 16 they helped me to really listen to students. The energy in the classes was great and correction was easy. I learnt many ways to correct, not just the obvious things such as grammar or constructions but also pronunciation and intonation, while maintaining the energy and having fun. Students liked how much they were able to practice and how clearly things were explained. I feel I was well trained and supported throughout my year. I was also offered official courses on pronunciation and business English through the academy. They seemed very open to helping me further my career.
The students advanced really quickly! One of my favourites started around the same time as me as a unit 1 (newbies together) and, 19 months on, he passed his FCE exam. Not everyone moves as fast as him, but you get to see people reaching their goals and it feels great. It´s one of the reasons I learnt to be clear and concise when explaining new things- the students aren´t there to listen to you go on, they want to speak.
I also met some great people through the school: my colleagues (most of them have carried on... I don´t know why some comments suggest otherwise), the people who trained me (Andrew and Don were always there to give me a hand and point me in the right direction) and all the others I met along the way.
I guess the only thing that I wasn´t a fan of was the irregular timetable. I received a different timetable every Friday as we rotated classes. I know that before I came it changed every day, so maybe I got an improved version... But it still wasn´t the best. Number 16 isn´t your traditional 4-10pm academy, which has its good points and bad points. The guys still working there tell me they have some kind of morning/evening shift now.
Smmcartney, I think what you´ve said is a little unfair on those working at the academy and that this is maybe a personal problem you had. You haven´t worked there for at least a year so I don´t feel you should criticize the academy now. I have this place on my CV and comments like this could affect me, and anyone else, personally.