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Will getting permanent residency get harder from 2012?
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

- How long have you lived/worked in Japan (and how long have your previous extensions been)?
Two and a half years now. This was my second extension. The first was for a year and a half, which was policy for those applying in areas affected by the earthquake last year.

- Is your organization large or small?
I'd say it's fairly small compared to other better-known dispatch companies.

- What's the highest level of education you've completed?
BA

- What is your approximate yearly income?
More than the average dispatch salary.

- Do you speak Japanese? Did you submit a JLPT certificate with your visa extension application?
A bit, and no.

- Is there anything else that you think should have helped your case, or anything that you feel may have hurt your case for a five-year extension?
The only thing that stood out was my employer stating that I had a contract for three years, which I think should have helped. I think that even with the usual one year contract, I'd have received a three-year extension, as I was told that I would have been given three years last time if not for the earthquake.
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneJoelFifty wrote:
- How long have you lived/worked in Japan (and how long have your previous extensions been)?
Two and a half years now. This was my second extension. The first was for a year and a half, which was policy for those applying in areas affected by the earthquake last year.

- Is your organization large or small?
I'd say it's fairly small compared to other better-known dispatch companies.

- What's the highest level of education you've completed?
BA

- What is your approximate yearly income?
More than the average dispatch salary.

- Do you speak Japanese? Did you submit a JLPT certificate with your visa extension application?
A bit, and no.

- Is there anything else that you think should have helped your case, or anything that you feel may have hurt your case for a five-year extension?
The only thing that stood out was my employer stating that I had a contract for three years, which I think should have helped. I think that even with the usual one year contract, I'd have received a three-year extension, as I was told that I would have been given three years last time if not for the earthquake.

Thanks for that info.

Actually, my immigration office specifically told me you can't jump from a one-year extension to a five-year extension without going through a three-year extension first (the exception to this is if you're using the points system). I had assumed you were applying from a three-year extension.

Still, sorry to hear that. Must have been something of a letdown. I know that both times immigration has stamped "one year" in my passport, it has been a letdown for me, especially considering that there are JETs who speak absolutely no Japanese whose first time in Japan is on a three-year visa...

People in this thread have told me that I should apply for my extensions at another, friendlier immigration office. However, people in other threads have said that if I apply at a new immigration office, they "won't trust me" and will give me a one-year extension the first time. So it seems that no matter where I apply, I'm damned to a third one-year extension.

This wouldn't be a big problem if I were planning to continue to teach English forever and ever, but I kind of need the extra time. If I get a three-year visa, I'll have enough visa stability to downshift to part-time teaching work, go back to university via UMUC Japan campus, and get another degree, and hopefully make my way into a non-teaching job. A one-year extension just isn't enough time to enact those plans, because I have to worry about (non-)renewal, which is right around the corner.
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, actually I was expecting the 3 year visa so it wasn't a disappointment.
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ssjup81



Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 553
Location: Tendo, Yamagata, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a three year. I came back over in late March. First time it was for one year but due to unavoidable circumstances, I had to return home last year. I was planning on doing an extension too, but seeing as how I lived in an area affected by the earthquake at the time, I probably would've only been given a year extension.

I wish I could get the five year. I would love to live here as a PR at some point and get into real ESL teaching and going back to school for it and earn more credentials. As things are now, I don't think I'd actually qualify seeing as how I haven't lived here consecutively for two years at any point yet. I also want better Japanese competency. As I am now, I suck.

That aside, for extensions, should I wait out the three years or could I try early on, like after a year? I never knew if that was allowed or not. ^^

Anywho, hope I can hear more on the whole PR change requirement.

Edit: As for the income question given to OneJoelFifty, is that before or after taxes?
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssjup81 wrote:
I have a three year. I came back over in late March. First time it was for one year but due to unavoidable circumstances, I had to return home last year.

I wish I could get the five year. I would love to live here as a PR at some point and get into real ESL teaching and going back to school for it and earn more credentials. As things are now, I don't think I'd actually qualify seeing as how I haven't lived here consecutively for two years at any point yet. I also want better Japanese competency. As I am now, I suck.

Anywho, hope I can hear more on the whole PR change requirement.
You might want to keep an eye on the "points system." If you get 70 points (combined) on things like salary, working career, academic background, age, etc. you can apply to switch your visa to a five-year visa. Once on that visa, permanent residency is accessible in "only" five years, not ten.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/topics/pdf/120502/02_e.pdf

However, if you look at the points system, it is EXTREMELY difficult to qualify for 70 points. For example, if I worked my butt off, I could have:
- A master's degree: 20 points
- Work experience: 10 points in a couple of years (not sure if my teaching counts, though)
- Salary: I might be able to reach 4 million yen if I picked up a whole bunch of part-time gigs and worked my butt off: 10 points
- Age: less than 29 years old: 15 points
- Finishing my master's degree at a Japanese school: 5 points
- Passing JLPT Level 1: 10 points
Total: 70 points (the bare minimum, and I can't even guarantee I could do all the things on the list -- most of them, I probably could, but the "working career" category is extremely subjective)

So...the points system is extremely difficult to qualify for right now. However, in the future, the government may ease up on the conditions (at their own pace, in their own time, which could be years from now for all we know, or not at all).

Keep your eye on it, though. If they ease up on the system at all, it'll make a huge difference.
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ssjup81



Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 553
Location: Tendo, Yamagata, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iím nowhere near that, at the moment. lol

I donít have a MA. I was considering working on it when I went back home last year, but I got a job after I got back home that took up a lot of my time. I still only have a BA.

Work experienceÖguess that would be a bit subjective and depends on which immigration office you apply through, and also how long you worked at each job. Iíve had multiple jobs, some that can be related to education/children, other work that can relate to business. Iíve even worked for SunTrust. Iíve done tutoring over the years, Iíve worked as an assistant teacher, a food server at an old-folks home, some temp jobs, Iíve worked as an ALT here in Japan, and now an eikaiwa teacher (a job I plan on keeping for as long as I canÖ.as I like the challenge of it, and like working with people who are here because they want to or choose to be, not because they have to).

SalaryÖhm. If 4 million yen is the min, then I wouldnít qualify for this either. Iím at about 3.1 a year (now). Made way less when working as an ALT. Too bad I canít include cash from back home. I use my money from back home for some things than I do with my pay here. lol

Age: Iím going on 31 now. First time here, I was still 28 (going on 29). So I guess I wouldnít be able to get points for this either based on my salary.

Masterís at a Japanese universityÖno way I can do that, unless itís online and maybe once or twice a week given my work schedule. I also donít reside in Tokyo where Iím sure itíd be easier to attend a university as a foreigner.

JLPT lvl 1ÖI tried JLPT 3 (before the change and before I lived here) and did miserable on that because of listening. Iím nowhere near JLPT 1 level at all as Iíve gone backwards having been away from the country for a year. I would like to try it again, just need to get down and study! I doubt Iíd be JLPT 1 anytime soon, though.

I wonder if my having Japanese credit would help. I have a Japanese credit card. Meh. lol

AnywhoÖseems based on this bit, Iím nowhere near eligible going on points alone. Iíll have to check out that pdf you posted and will later after work. I have to go back to planning for tonightís classes (adults). Working on prepositions and gerunds.

Oh, at the job Iím currently at, btw, they mentioned that immigration usually only did one year extensions or maybe after three years, extend it to another three. I canít help but wonder, if Iíd gotten here after the July change, would I have been given five years off the bat, or would immigration have given me three years still. Iíd hate to keep extending my only one or three years. Itíd totally suck if it turns out that after my three Iíd only be allowed to get a one-year extension.
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssjup81 wrote:
Iím nowhere near that, at the moment. lol

I donít have a MA. I was considering working on it when I went back home last year, but I got a job after I got back home that took up a lot of my time. I still only have a BA.

Work experienceÖguess that would be a bit subjective and depends on which immigration office you apply through, and also how long you worked at each job. Iíve had multiple jobs, some that can be related to education/children, other work that can relate to business. Iíve even worked for SunTrust. Iíve done tutoring over the years, Iíve worked as an assistant teacher, a food server at an old-folks home, some temp jobs, Iíve worked as an ALT here in Japan, and now an eikaiwa teacher (a job I plan on keeping for as long as I canÖ.as I like the challenge of it, and like working with people who are here because they want to or choose to be, not because they have to).

SalaryÖhm. If 4 million yen is the min, then I wouldnít qualify for this either. Iím at about 3.1 a year (now). Made way less when working as an ALT. Too bad I canít include cash from back home. I use my money from back home for some things than I do with my pay here. lol

Age: Iím going on 31 now. First time here, I was still 28 (going on 29). So I guess I wouldnít be able to get points for this either based on my salary.

Masterís at a Japanese universityÖno way I can do that, unless itís online and maybe once or twice a week given my work schedule. I also donít reside in Tokyo where Iím sure itíd be easier to attend a university as a foreigner.

JLPT lvl 1ÖI tried JLPT 3 (before the change and before I lived here) and did miserable on that because of listening. Iím nowhere near JLPT 1 level at all as Iíve gone backwards having been away from the country for a year. I would like to try it again, just need to get down and study! I doubt Iíd be JLPT 1 anytime soon, though.

I wonder if my having Japanese credit would help. I have a Japanese credit card. Meh. lol

AnywhoÖseems based on this bit, Iím nowhere near eligible going on points alone. Iíll have to check out that pdf you posted and will later after work. I have to go back to planning for tonightís classes (adults). Working on prepositions and gerunds.

Oh, at the job Iím currently at, btw, they mentioned that immigration usually only did one year extensions or maybe after three years, extend it to another three. I canít help but wonder, if Iíd gotten here after the July change, would I have been given five years off the bat, or would immigration have given me three years still. Iíd hate to keep extending my only one or three years. Itíd totally suck if it turns out that after my three Iíd only be allowed to get a one-year extension.
Yeah, to be honest, as it stands right now, this "points system" is a joke. It's essentially "if you're part of the 1% upper crust of society, we'll reward you by treating you the same (or almost as well) as an ordinary immigrant worker would be treated in almost any other OECD country." Seriously, a total joke.

However, at least the framework now exists. I read a newspaper article that stated that this initial points rubric was merely a sort of beta test, and that they will readjust the points system later (probably to be more lenient), so we can hope.

Korea did the same thing back in 2010. They released a ridiculously difficult-to-get points-based visa called the F-2-7. At first, it was ridiculously hard (basically you'd have to have a master's degree and speak advanced Korean to even have a *chance*), but later, they eased it up. They gave more points for things that previously hadn't been worth very many, and now, in 2012, the F-2-7 is quite accessible to any hard-working professional foreigner. Maybe Japan's points system will follow suit. I don't know, but I'd say it's a possibility.

However, I'm not holding my breath on it. I fully expect to wait ten years to get PR the old-fashioned way.
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
Yeah, to be honest, as it stands right now, this "points system" is a joke. It's essentially "if you're part of the 1% upper crust of society, we'll reward you by treating you the same (or almost as well) as an ordinary immigrant worker would be treated in almost any other OECD country."


You're not really all that familiar with immigration in the OECD, are you? Confused
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G Cthulhu wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
Yeah, to be honest, as it stands right now, this "points system" is a joke. It's essentially "if you're part of the 1% upper crust of society, we'll reward you by treating you the same (or almost as well) as an ordinary immigrant worker would be treated in almost any other OECD country."


You're not really all that familiar with immigration in the OECD, are you? Confused
I've lived in six different countries, four of which were OECD. Thanks for asking. Are you sure you want to play this game again?
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
G Cthulhu wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
Yeah, to be honest, as it stands right now, this "points system" is a joke. It's essentially "if you're part of the 1% upper crust of society, we'll reward you by treating you the same (or almost as well) as an ordinary immigrant worker would be treated in almost any other OECD country."


You're not really all that familiar with immigration in the OECD, are you? :?
I've lived in six different countries, four of which were OECD. Thanks for asking. Are you sure you want to play this game again?


Sure! Go ahead and show us that the news regs in Japan are the same as most OECD immigrant worker visa regs.
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G Cthulhu wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
G Cthulhu wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
Yeah, to be honest, as it stands right now, this "points system" is a joke. It's essentially "if you're part of the 1% upper crust of society, we'll reward you by treating you the same (or almost as well) as an ordinary immigrant worker would be treated in almost any other OECD country."


You're not really all that familiar with immigration in the OECD, are you? Confused
I've lived in six different countries, four of which were OECD. Thanks for asking. Are you sure you want to play this game again?


Sure! Go ahead and show us that the news regs in Japan are the same as most OECD immigrant worker visa regs.
You're the one who wanted to start this debate. So you can provide evidence first. I'll respond to that evidence. And if you can't do that, or don't want to do that, then I can't be bothered to debate with you.

Also, if you want to debate this, we need to agree beforehand on the specific thing it is that we're debating. I don't want any goalpost shifting halfway through the debate.

Oh, and no ad hominem.

If you can't agree with those three things, then I can't be bothered to debate with you. So what'll it be? Debate, or no debate?
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
You're the one who wanted to start this debate. So you can provide evidence first. I'll respond to that evidence. And if you can't do that, or don't want to do that, then I can't be bothered to debate with you.


I'm not "debating" anything: *You* made the claim so the burden of proof is entirely on you. Where on earth were you educated?!
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G Cthulhu wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
You're the one who wanted to start this debate. So you can provide evidence first. I'll respond to that evidence. And if you can't do that, or don't want to do that, then I can't be bothered to debate with you.


I'm not "debating" anything: *You* made the claim so the burden of proof is entirely on you. Where on earth were you educated?!
Right, you don't debate, you just insert constant snide, peanut gallery-esque remarks into my thread and egg me on. You say you're "not 'debating' anything," but you can't leave this thread alone and let people have a mature discussion about the PR regs, either.

I have absolutely no burden of proof to you. I owe you nothing. If you want to continue to live in ignorance believing things like the following, go ahead:
G Cthulhu wrote:
The reality is that PR is easy in Japan compared to many countries. Even if they do make it harder then they'd still be doing no more than bringing it into line with most other countries.
Yes, YOU typed that, word-for-word! Incredible! As if there's some other OECD country that normally requires 10 (or more!) years of continuous residency for foreign workers to get PR, or as if there's some other OECD country that considers five years to PR a "fast track" and a "special privilege" for highly-skilled migrants only!

You are the one with the contrarian, unorthodox viewpoint, not me.

If someone believes the world is round, he shouldn't have to defend his mainstream, commonly-accepted viewpoint continually. The guy who thinks the world is flat has the burden of proof, because his viewpoint is the contrarian, unorthodox one.

If anyone has a burden of proof, it's you!

And if you don't want to debate, then stop posting snide, ad hominem comments in my thread that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 860

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In here as well? What's got into everyone round here lately?
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
G Cthulhu wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
You're the one who wanted to start this debate. So you can provide evidence first. I'll respond to that evidence. And if you can't do that, or don't want to do that, then I can't be bothered to debate with you.


I'm not "debating" anything: *You* made the claim so the burden of proof is entirely on you. Where on earth were you educated?!
Right, you don't debate, you just insert constant snide, peanut gallery-esque remarks into my thread and egg me on. You say you're "not 'debating' anything," but you can't leave this thread alone and let people have a mature discussion about the PR regs, either.

I have absolutely no burden of proof to you. I owe you nothing. If you want to continue to live in ignorance believing things like the following, go ahead:
G Cthulhu wrote:
The reality is that PR is easy in Japan compared to many countries. Even if they do make it harder then they'd still be doing no more than bringing it into line with most other countries.
Yes, YOU typed that, word-for-word! Incredible! As if there's some other OECD country that normally requires 10 (or more!) years of continuous residency for foreign workers to get PR, or as if there's some other OECD country that considers five years to PR a "fast track" and a "special privilege" for highly-skilled migrants only!

You are the one with the contrarian, unorthodox viewpoint, not me.

If someone believes the world is round, he shouldn't have to defend his mainstream, commonly-accepted viewpoint continually. The guy who thinks the world is flat has the burden of proof, because his viewpoint is the contrarian, unorthodox one.

If anyone has a burden of proof, it's you!

And if you don't want to debate, then stop posting snide, ad hominem comments in my thread that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.



As I said, you made the claim so it's up to you to back it up. Waving your hands around getting all worked up about how evil you think I am and how you're always a victim is irrelevant: I simply asked you to back up your assertion on this thread.
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