Job Discussion Forums

pwlivingstone2706 · Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 30 Location: London

Hi,

Can anyone tell me the email address for reporting an academy for taking on illegals (American students who are staying illegally and working)?

I won't say anything about the teachers on student visas who tell me they're gonna "lose" their passports once they return to the US in order to circumvent the EU's border controls, but the school needs to be fined for breaking the law...

and if they end up shutting down so much the better, more work for properly run academies...

thanks if anyone can help
Philip

Nicky_McG · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 190

That's a bit harsh to be honest. There are loads of academies that do that so are you going to report them all? I'm no fan of Americans assuming they have the right to work in Spain but I would never grass like you're doing.

Grimace420 · Joined: 24 Sep 2011 Posts: 88 Location: Madriz

Ahh, Spain. A country where an estimated 25% of its GDP comes from the black economy. A country where an academy owner will openly brag about all the dodgy dealings and tax evasion he's perpetrating and laugh about it (I've seen this with my own eyes more than once). A country whose ESL industry is significantly represented by backpackers who come for a bit of a laugh for a year or two overseas often while flouting EU labour laws and whose ESL sector exists largely as an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff because of the gross mismanagement of English language teaching in primary and secondary schools. A country where "bilingual" schools often have teachers whose total knowledge of English can be summed up in the phrases "quiet, please" and "seeeeeet down please" and where the local English teachers wonder why we natives are given preference.

Illegal English teachers not being pursued is just par for the course, sadly. Even if you report the schools, the authorities have got so many bigger fish to fry that I doubt anything would come of it unless they were really fucking hacienda over. I actually tutor the children of some pretty high-ranking tax inspectors in Madrid. Maybe I can ask them what the deal is the next time they pay me under the table in an envelope.

pwlivingstone2706 · Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 30 Location: London

yeah, you're probably right, I'm just venting really...

it makes it harder for the rest of us mugs to get the hours...

but like you say, Spain is only a couple of steps above Greece when it comes to contempt for taxes...

thx
Philip

pr455 · Joined: 08 May 2011 Posts: 135 Location: MADRID, SPAIN

pwlivingstone2706,

Your post says a lot by saying very little. Let me ask you a question because I am confused. How can an American student be here illegally without any type of visa? It is not possible. As an American, we have to apply for a student visa before we leave the US and then apply for an extension once we get to Spain in order to get our student visa card.

Americans are allowed to work up to 20 hours on a student visa thanks to the bilingual school program which started in 2004. The law changed then. Before that time, no one was allowed to work on a student visa in Spain.

I have been here working, and this makes year number 6, on a student visa and I have not encountered any problem at all finding work legally. I have been teaching for 18 years. I have worked both in the public and charter school as an English Language Teaching Assistant.

Some academies won't hire people on a student visa, while others will. I even do teacher training for the Department of Education on my student visa and have worked at universities here in Madrid. I also collaborate with publishing companies.

You also have to realize that this law is so ambiguous that many academies interpret it in their own way. For example, when I wrote that people are allowed to work up to 20 hours on a student visa, does that mean 20 hours a week or 20 hours in total for the month? It is open for interpretation.

Most English teachers complain about backpackers taking jobs away from them or even lowering the rates of pay. You don't place the full blame on the backpackers, you blame the academies who hire them and the government who allows it to happen by turning a blind eye.

Shawn

pwlivingstone2706 · Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 30 Location: London

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I actually think that what pwlivingstone is complaining about may be people with no visa at all.

The TEFL courses typically tell prospective trainees that they don't need any visa, and that's technically true; they come over as tourists on the 90-day allowance the Schengen zone countries automatically give to tourists from North America. The TEFL courses take no more than a month, so the trainees are legal for that time period and a bit more.

The only likely way they'll get caught is at some passport control, if it's noticed that they entered the zone longer in the past than 90 days. It's also possible if they are involved in any kind of situation where they must show id, of course.........if the officials involved in whatever it is are interested enough to check.

As for the employers, well - it's shady and risky for everybody concerned. So long as people know there are risks, then they can make their own decisions...I know people who've made it work in the past for a while, but being illegal gets tough sooner or later.

pr455 · Joined: 08 May 2011 Posts: 135 Location: MADRID, SPAIN

pwlivingstone2706,

Now I understand what you are saying. You did not clarify the part about people overstaying their visa, the key word "overstay" which you adequately put in caps and bold to clearly make your point.

If people are overstaying their visa, then they are no longer students and should not be considered as such. When people enter the country, without any type of visa stamp in their passport, then, of course, they are on a tourist visa, which for non-EU, is 90 days.

Speaking of student visas, the program for which I am working had to report 60 people who left the program early because, since we are tied to that student visa, if we leave the program before our grant is up, we are here illegally. That's the way it should be. They also told us if these people try to renew their student visas next year that they would be denied.

Blame whomever you want, for the situation won't change at all. It's a fact. We see it all around us. I met a young woman who came over to do a TEFL because the academy told her that there was plenty of work and they even went on further to tell her that she could work here without any papers. Well, let's say that she is struggling to find work. Is she to blame? Partly, because she didn't do her homework before coming. But the majority of that blame lies with the academy for knowingly lying outright to her just so that they can get the money.

I no longer think about it and do what I can do to make sure that I have hours. A backpacker can never take hours away from me because they cannot do teacher training or work at any university where I am working without being here legally.

Shawn

jonniboy · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject:

Phillip, I know where you're coming from but the fact is that the situation isn't going to change any time soon unless the government cracks down and the Spanish government has got far bigger worries, sitting in a banana republic with sky high unemployment and many people still taking a head in the sand approach to the terrible predicament the country is in.

In the end it will all come down to supply and demand, Spain will always be an attractive place for people to live in and will attract tonnes of anglophone ex-pats, legal or not. With such a labour supply available, academies will always be able to get away with cowboy practices. Where I'm heading I have a year long contract, flights paid for, accommodation provided with bills paid for and end of contract bonus. Try asking for any of that in Spain and they'll just laugh at you and you'll quickly find yourself just another part of the 26%.