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Will getting permanent residency get harder from 2012?
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weigookin74



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steki47 wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
but in Yokkaichi, even a three-year extension is a rare, precious thing.


Must say, this has not been my experience with Yokkaichi immigration. I came to Japan with a one-year work visa from Nova and both renewals gave me three-year visas.

In Gifu, after getting married, immigration told me that I would probably get a one-year spouse visa at first and processing would take up to one month. It took FOUR DAYS to get my three-year spouse visa.

All three of my interactions with immigration have been amazingly smooth and quick.


What is married life like in Japan? Do you eventually become a permanent resident or do you have to keep doing this one or three year renewal? Can people get kicked down to temporary status even after being a permanent residence? Sounds really hostile to foriegners if this is true.
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1322
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weigookin74 wrote:
Can people get kicked down to temporary status even after being a permanent residence?


Yes. Same as most countries. Immigration officers have a large amount of discretion and they use it. Same as many countries. I doubt that it's just random that some people have constant trouble with immigration here and others don't. It must be their winning personalities. Confused


Quote:
Sounds really hostile to foriegners if this is true.


No more so than most other countries. You might say it's hostile if you had numbers showing that it was common for it to happen, but no one has presented any yet.

Personally, I've always found Japanese immigration reasonably nice to deal with. Erratic at times, but nice enough to deal with. Not as nice as Sweden or Norway, but infinitely nicer than Australia or the US. Again, places vary and obviously YMMV.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weigookin74 wrote:
What is married life like in Japan? Do you eventually become a permanent resident or do you have to keep doing this one or three year renewal? Can people get kicked down to temporary status even after being a permanent residence? Sounds really hostile to foriegners if this is true.
In my experience (since 1998), most people with spousal visas have to wait for their second renewal (first one is often 1-year, second is 3-years) before they shoot for PR. Exceptions abound, so this is just a rough approximation of the average situation.

I have never heard of anyone actually being "kicked down" to any other status after they got PR. They can lose PR completely if they are stupid enough to stay outside the country past the expiration date of their reentry permit (or forget to buy one in the first place), of course.
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weigookin74



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
weigookin74 wrote:
What is married life like in Japan? Do you eventually become a permanent resident or do you have to keep doing this one or three year renewal? Can people get kicked down to temporary status even after being a permanent residence? Sounds really hostile to foriegners if this is true.
In my experience (since 1998), most people with spousal visas have to wait for their second renewal (first one is often 1-year, second is 3-years) before they shoot for PR. Exceptions abound, so this is just a rough approximation of the average situation.

I have never heard of anyone actually being "kicked down" to any other status after they got PR. They can lose PR completely if they are stupid enough to stay outside the country past the expiration date of their reentry permit (or forget to buy one in the first place), of course.


Ah, just curious. Had friends in Korea get permanent residence and they said once they got it, it could never be taken away. Even if they got divorced, they got to keep it. Could never lose it even if convicted of a crime. Can even vote in local elections. I figured Japan would be the same or more since they have been open to the world longer.
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

weigookin74 wrote:
Glenski wrote:
weigookin74 wrote:
What is married life like in Japan? Do you eventually become a permanent resident or do you have to keep doing this one or three year renewal? Can people get kicked down to temporary status even after being a permanent residence? Sounds really hostile to foriegners if this is true.
In my experience (since 1998), most people with spousal visas have to wait for their second renewal (first one is often 1-year, second is 3-years) before they shoot for PR. Exceptions abound, so this is just a rough approximation of the average situation.

I have never heard of anyone actually being "kicked down" to any other status after they got PR. They can lose PR completely if they are stupid enough to stay outside the country past the expiration date of their reentry permit (or forget to buy one in the first place), of course.


Ah, just curious. Had friends in Korea get permanent residence and they said once they got it, it could never be taken away. Even if they got divorced, they got to keep it. Could never lose it even if convicted of a crime. Can even vote in local elections. I figured Japan would be the same or more since they have been open to the world longer.

First of all, I just want to put this right here at the top of the message, in plain view (for the mods):
This is not a Korea-focused post, but a comparison of Japan's and Korea's systems.


Weigookin74, to answer your question, Korea has essentially leap-frogged Japan in terms of immigration. Until 2008 or so, Korea was clearly behind Japan, immigration-wise. However, it has since surpassed Japan, at least in terms of ease of getting permanent residency. I will compare the two countries' systems below.

Back when I was living there in 2006, there were only five ways to get permanent residency:
1. Invest 5,000,000,000 won (approximately 5 million US dollars) and receive PR immediately
2. Invest 500,000,000 won (approximately $500,000) and wait three years
3. Make a "special contribution to Korea" (for example, take a bullet for the president)
4. Marry a Korean and stay married for five years (later slashed to two years)
5. Have Korean blood (instant permanent residency)

This made it impossible for English teachers, or just about anyone else, to acquire PR in Korea prior to 2008. However, in Japan, PR was possible provided a person had lived in Japan for 10+ years. This means that between the 1990s and 2008, Japan had easier PR procedures than Korea.

When Lee Myung-bak took over, he called for immigration reform. Under Lee Myung-bak, permanent residency was made much, much, much easier (ironic that English teachers put the guy down so much)!

Korea's nearly-impossible requirements eased up in 2008 (with slightly more liberal policies on F-5 issuance), and especially, in 2010/2011 with the F-2-7 (which is a fast track to the F-5).

Whereas Japan was ahead of Korea on immigration for decades, Korea suddenly leapfrogged Japan, particularly in 2010/2011.

Some new streams to PR in Korea, now:

1. If you live in Korea for five consecutive years, and succeed in earning at least 2X the national GDP per capita, you can receive permanent residency.

2. The fast-track (faster than Japan's so-called "fast track") takes only four years to permanent residency. This is how it works:
Spend at least one year on a one-year E-series work visa Arrow Apply for and receive an F-2-7 Arrow After three years on the F-2-7, apply for permanent residency

Note that for Option 2, it is a requirement to score 70 points on Korea's point rubric. This may sound similar to Japan's point rubric (which also requires 70 points), but when you actually put the two rubrics side-by-side, it is quite apparent that Korea's is much more lenient. Whereas Japan only gives a measly 10 points for receiving a JLPT N1 test result, Korea gives 20 points for advanced-level Korean. Whereas Japan gives only 20 points for a master's degree, Korea gives 30 points.

What this basically boils down to is this:
- The theoretical minimum time for a foreign professional to get permanent residency in Korea is 4 years.
- In Japan, it's 5 years, except that the points rubric is so incredibly difficult, most professionals will still be on the slow 10-year track (since it is virtually impossible to score 70 points on Japan's point rubric).

So...I hope this answers your question. Japan used to be easier, but not since 2010. Lee Myung-bak, who is generally interested in free trade and internationalization, has reversed decades of extremely xenophobic, protectionist policies, and the result is a Korean immigration system that, at least in theory, has really gotten pretty easy over the last couple of years (at least on paper) provided that you're reasonably decent at Korean and reasonably well-educated.

P.S. -- I realized I left some of your points unaddressed, so I will address them:
Quote:
Even if they got divorced, they got to keep it.
Actually, both countries treat that the same way. Sometimes people confuse spousal visas and PR.

In both Korea and Japan, you can keep your PR (eijuuken in Japan, F-5 in Korea) after getting divorced.

And in both countries, getting divorced while on a spousal visa (F-2 spousal visa in Korea) is bad business.

A lot of people seem to think that once you get married, your spousal visa is "PR." It's not. It's a spousal visa. In most countries, a spousal status can be taken away in the event of a divorce. Usually, in the case of most countries (Korea and Japan included), a foreign spouse can eventually receive permanent residency after several years of being married (F-5 in Korea, eijuuken in Japan).
Quote:
Could never lose it even if convicted of a crime.
I'm not sure how the two countries compare in this respect. It doesn't really concern me, since I don't plan on committing any crimes (though there is always a chance that I could be falsely accused, the chances of this happening are small, and I think residence status would be the least of my worries if I were about to spend years in jail).
Quote:
Can even vote in local elections.
Hmmm...this is true, BUT it wasn't exactly some altruistic move on Korea's part. Korea did this specifically so it could argue for the enfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of Zainichi Koreans in Japan. If Korea could enfranchise a few thousand foreigners and, in return, get significant control over Japanese politics (a voter bloc of half a million people voting the way Korea wants them to), they would obviously do it. The whole point of Korea enfranchising the (tiny handful) of F-5 holders in Korea was so that they could turn around and point at Japan and say "See, we enfranchised your citizens in Korea, now you have to enfranchise ours." Japan saw through this game that Korea was playing, and declined to give suffrage to Zainichi Koreans.
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SeasonedVet



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 236
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got my postcard to visit immigration for permanent residence.
On a 3 year visa.
Will update later.
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster, why are you spouting about Korea in the Japan forum? Frankly I'm not here to read about Korea. I live in Japan.

Anyways, it actually can be a faster path to permanent residency with a spouse visa. Can be done after 3 years with a year of marriage abroad or some such obscure rule. Does anyone know what the spouse visa rule is?
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marley'sghost



Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

timothypfox wrote:
Rooster, why are you spouting about Korea in the Japan forum? Frankly I'm not here to read about Korea. I live in Japan.

Anyways, it actually can be a faster path to permanent residency with a spouse visa. Can be done after 3 years with a year of marriage abroad or some such obscure rule. Does anyone know what the spouse visa rule is?


I got my PR after 3 years on a spouse visa. We did not spend more than a month of that time abroad though.
I wouldn't have even thought to apply for it at the time, but I had some other question about renewing and the lady at the info counter said, "Oh, you can apply for permanent residency after 3 years on a spouse visa." I did not have to any more than check a different box on the form and write a couple sentences to explain my reasons for applying. In my case, I skated through. On the other hand, I had a buddy on a spouse visa who was applying a year or two after me, who had to provide all sorts of letters and bank records and stuff and he was going through the same office as me. Must be my honest demeanor.
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 560
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timothypfox wrote:
Rooster, why are you spouting about Korea in the Japan forum? Frankly I'm not here to read about Korea. I live in Japan.


Where is Rooster these days? Hasn't posted since late last year.

timothypfox,

RELAX, Francis!
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those with PR, how does it affect your taxes?
Are foreign accounts taxed or do they have to be declared?
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