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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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 Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| Inflames wrote: |
| There are two problems with people who recently graduated writing an objective on their resume. The first is that, while they have an objective, they have very little work experience, so the have no idea of what the work is like. As any hiring manager with a large organization will tell you, a large number of people who recently graduated quit within a short time after starting - the work wasn't what they expected. The next is that people are applying for any job and changing it to suit the job ad - people are far more focused on getting a job than on getting a job with their "ideal" company or their "ideal" position. |
I think these are reasons why aims are useful, not not useful. Recent grads should be able to link their aims to some experiences, be it working with children as a volunteer, internships, hobbies etc. It ties everything together hopefully along with the degree, just as any conclusion would which is what an aim is really. It shows that the person has thought about what they want to do work wise. It's precisely lack of aims which are more likely to be the very reason so many recent grads quit so soon, because they haven't thought enough about their career.
You'll never get any worthwhile job if you're just sending your CV off to countless companies and job sites. You really do need to know your aims yourself if you really want to progress. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| for someone mid-career, applying for the type of jobs you mentioned, I take the opposite view that aims are pretty redundant because if the position was not the logical next-step career wise the person would be unqualified |
There are plenty of people who move laterally, not vertically, so it is important to see where they are coming from, or if their perception of the job is a step outside reality. For those moving vertically, objectives must match those of the employer, not the previous one.
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| You're not going to be a sales manager, R and D project leader etc, without a track record in the field, whether you get the job or not just depends on how good your record is compared to other people. It's precisely because recent grads might not have any work experience that they need aims, to show they've thought about their career goals, and are not just sending off their CV to any job they see. Aims can never hurt. |
They sure can! I have seen plenty of resumes which are not based in reality, mostly because of inexperience. The cover letter allows for more room to explain. |
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Inflames
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| hagiwaramai wrote: |
I think these are reasons why aims are useful, not not useful. Recent grads should be able to link their aims to some experiences, be it working with children as a volunteer, internships, hobbies etc. It ties everything together hopefully along with the degree, just as any conclusion would which is what an aim is really. It shows that the person has thought about what they want to do work wise. It's precisely lack of aims which are more likely to be the very reason so many recent grads quit so soon, because they haven't thought enough about their career. |
This doesn't say why someone should add a one (or two) sentence objective to their resume. A well-written cover letter along with a customized resume would make it quite clear to the reader why you would be a good fit.
Lots of people quit because of unexpected difficulties with their jobs. For example, the turnover rate for new teachers is exceedingly high - difficulty teaching isn't actually one of the big factors.
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| You'll never get any worthwhile job if you're just sending your CV off to countless companies and job sites. You really do need to know your aims yourself if you really want to progress. |
Unfortunately people need money and, to get money, people work. When you need to pay bills people will send out resumes to get a job - so people send things off to tons of companies. It doesn't help that most job ads are poorly written. |
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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Inflames wrote: |
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
I think these are reasons why aims are useful, not not useful. Recent grads should be able to link their aims to some experiences, be it working with children as a volunteer, internships, hobbies etc. It ties everything together hopefully along with the degree, just as any conclusion would which is what an aim is really. It shows that the person has thought about what they want to do work wise. It's precisely lack of aims which are more likely to be the very reason so many recent grads quit so soon, because they haven't thought enough about their career. |
This doesn't say why someone should add a one (or two) sentence objective to their resume. A well-written cover letter along with a customized resume would make it quite clear to the reader why you would be a good fit.
Lots of people quit because of unexpected difficulties with their jobs. For example, the turnover rate for new teachers is exceedingly high - difficulty teaching isn't actually one of the big factors.
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| You'll never get any worthwhile job if you're just sending your CV off to countless companies and job sites. You really do need to know your aims yourself if you really want to progress. |
Unfortunately people need money and, to get money, people work. When you need to pay bills people will send out resumes to get a job - so people send things off to tons of companies. It doesn't help that most job ads are poorly written. |
Simply because it adds focus and clarity to the CV itself, otherwise it's just a list of jobs, education and hobbies. What's the point of it though? The aims give reason and purpose, which simultaneously can show drive and clarity of thought. Anyone can write down a list of what they've done in their life but tying it together to make sense of it in a short statement of aims shows understanding and thought, and makes the CV logical, not just a list of random stuff.
It's not that big an issue though, I just think a statement of aims is just a like a conclusion in an essay. It ties everything together and summarises everything you've written, it's just a logical part of a CV for me. |
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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| for someone mid-career, applying for the type of jobs you mentioned, I take the opposite view that aims are pretty redundant because if the position was not the logical next-step career wise the person would be unqualified |
There are plenty of people who move laterally, not vertically, so it is important to see where they are coming from, or if their perception of the job is a step outside reality. For those moving vertically, objectives must match those of the employer, not the previous one.
| Quote: |
| You're not going to be a sales manager, R and D project leader etc, without a track record in the field, whether you get the job or not just depends on how good your record is compared to other people. It's precisely because recent grads might not have any work experience that they need aims, to show they've thought about their career goals, and are not just sending off their CV to any job they see. Aims can never hurt. |
They sure can! I have seen plenty of resumes which are not based in reality, mostly because of inexperience. The cover letter allows for more room to explain. |
I was assuming it was a logical well-written "Objective", otherwise you could say the same thing about any part of a CV. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| I was assuming it was a logical well-written "Objective", |
As I thought was clear from my last post, I made no such assumption, based on my own experience in looking at resumes in this and other fields.
You also seem to be missing/ignoring the point of the cover letter. Let's call it quits here and agree to disagree. |
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OneJoelFifty
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ZennoSaji wrote: |
| Their wording was abhorrently vague, however. "[Even though you're basically awesome], we're unable to offer you a position at this time." |
Drop them an email, thank them for their time and ask them to keep you in mind. It could be that they don't have confirmation on the number of positions available next April, so as a candidate with no experience you're quite far down the list. They won't yet know what Board of Education contracts they'll keep, what new contracts they'll get, and how many teachers will be staying with them next year. So they might have you on a list of potentials should they have more positions they need to fill. |
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ZennoSaji
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 87
Location: Mito, Ibaraki
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, Joel.  I thought that might be a possibility. I'll see what my recruiter says tomorrow and then I'll do as you suggested depending on her answer. |
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kah5217
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 270
Location: Ibaraki
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| You guys are making me feel uneasy about getting an interview. How soon after you sent in the app did they contact you? |
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ZennoSaji
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 87
Location: Mito, Ibaraki
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| It was a while but I submitted it over the summer, in early June. I was chomping at the bit all spring, actually. XD In late August I got phone screened and invited instantly to the interview in September. Some people waited a couple of weeks to hear if they were invited from what I've read. |
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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| I was assuming it was a logical well-written "Objective", |
As I thought was clear from my last post, I made no such assumption, based on my own experience in looking at resumes in this and other fields.
You also seem to be missing/ignoring the point of the cover letter. Let's call it quits here and agree to disagree. |
But you have to make that assumption to even start discussing the relative merits of anything. Obviously if it's badly written it'll mess up a CV, but when talking hypothetically about whether an Objective is useful you have to be assuming all other things are equal, and of course it wouldn't be a good idea to put one in if it didn't make sense, but the rest of the CV would more than likely not be well written in that case either.
Sorry but two more things I haven't mentioned also. The Objective is different from a cover letter because it indicates the general purpose of the applicant before even applying for the job in question, which the cover letter would then expand on and explain why you think you'd be suitable specifically for this job. It shows that the application has not come out of thin air and the job in question was one that the applicant was looking for all along, which of course sounds good to an employer. Practically that might not be the case but as an applicant you have to make it look that way.
Another very important practical reason, although this is probably not so common in EFL, is with the amount of recruitment companies around, an Objective is all a company may see to persuade them to give you an interview. Again, showing that focus and tying a lot of random information together is your only chance to explain your CV and persuade someone to give you a chance. I've done it myself, getting interviews for unrelated jobs, after years of EFL teaching. |
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kah5217
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 270
Location: Ibaraki
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| ZennoSaji wrote: |
| It was a while but I submitted it over the summer, in early June. I was chomping at the bit all spring, actually. XD In late August I got phone screened and invited instantly to the interview in September. Some people waited a couple of weeks to hear if they were invited from what I've read. |
I'm going to assume that because the seminars are finished in December, they'll not wait two months to respond. I just hope mine wasn't sent in too late. |
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ZennoSaji
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 87
Location: Mito, Ibaraki
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Kah: Yes that's a safe assumption XD Best of luck!
Alright, so my recruiter got back to me and her interpretation was that I was declined entirely. It wasn't necessarily because of my not graduating since it was understood that my paperwork would come later.
In any case I did as Joel suggested and sent a customary "Thank for the opportunity" letter, to both the recruiter and the guy that crushed my soul (jk). |
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kah5217
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 270
Location: Ibaraki
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Interac called me today while I was at work. Luckily I could call them back on my break. I have a phone interview set up for next week. I just have to wait until they email me some info before I start preparing questions. |
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kah5217
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 270
Location: Ibaraki
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Did Interac send the pre-phone interview information via email or regular mail? I haven't received anything yet and I thought the man on the phone told me email. |
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