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Quitting a university job before holidays question
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Actually, a real farmer finds quality land to begin with and through TLC and hard work makes it even more fruitful and productive than it was to begin with.


Yes, I didn't say I was a real farmer. I know I chose a third tier school from the get go. There are videos online showing exactly the problems I have faced here. I also admit it didn't show some of the good things about this school. It was skewed to an extent to make the teacher who was leaving feel justified.

Anyway, why does it matter so much to you that I leave midway through a contract period of a very questionable school? It's my life. I am not complaining, just inquiring how to wrap things up.

I already have another job lined up which pays the same and is about 40 minutes from Tienanmen Square. It is 3 subway stations away from a language school I know I can go to in order to learn Korean, Japanese, and Chinese all at one location. Yabba dabba doo!!! Wink Wink

I found good land way out 2.5 hours from central Beijing. I worked my way here to be 1.5 hours from central Beijing, and now might cut it to 40. If you don't like it that's fine, you can replace me. I'll even throw in some chopsticks and rice I'll have to leave behind. However, the noodles are mine, deal? Laughing Laughing

Quote:
What you mention in your closing sentence is something quite the opposite of farming, someone who gets what he can and when he can't get any more, he moves on. That's destructive behavior.....like strip mining.


LOL, destructive? And what are they doing? They aren't getting what they can get out of me and then telling me to leave? I taught 20 classes at a university from September to the end of October (no problems in class and they haven't said anything until I questioned the workload for next semester, then all of a sudden I am a bad teacher LOL). How convenient.

Now when the class load has gone down and they see 2 months of holiday time, they know I want to stay in Beijing, so they decide they would prefer to bring in a new teacher and do the same to them. They don't have to pay airfare, holiday months, and they can extend the next contract with the next teacher. It's all about the money.

Don't some of you take the job because you know you will get a longer holiday, paid? It's a two way street, they need to show they want me just as much as I have to be willing to work for them.

I remember last year I taught a summer class of freshmen going into sophomore high school. The school told me my classes were bad, I asked, "Well, what if we teach them for free you don't have to pay me, how many will come?", they replied, "They will all come then if they don't have to pay." Oh, so it's just they don't want to pay, it has nothing to do with my classes then?

The fall semester started, I was instructed to teach from the book, and one student who took my summer class asked me, "Teacher, why are you teaching from the book? We are already studying it. Why can't you teach like you did in the summer?"

Oh well you see inquisitive grasshopper, I was told my classes were bad and I must teach from the book, so no interesting lesson for you!!!
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ecubyrd



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chinatimes wrote:
Quote:
I think a bigger issue is here is that you imply that you've been fired from at least one previous job in China.


Up to you decide, I don't care if you call it quitting or being fired. The general result is, if the school is good I stay with them, if they are bad I look for an exit. If you are one of those who work 1 contract period regardless what happens, then obviously you won't see my actions as praiseworthy.

School 1 - I went to a school and left it after 3 weeks. Apartment full of cockroaches, bathroom sewer smells, piping all around the apartment causing leaking, metal smell in the air, and sticky walls combined with the dirt, as well as fecal matter smells from the streets with actual liquid crap running down a hill into a sewer hole. If you want I can hook you up. You'll love their schedule, work 1 class at 10am, then sit around for 4 hours until you teach one more class on a Sunday.

School 2 - Went well for a few months, the school changed locations, but then they stopped paying teachers, drivers for the students, and front desk staff. It got to the point where the owner was driving students from school to their home and relatives were answering the phone at the front desk. There were 2 of us in the end, and when I asked for overtime pay or less hours, I was either fired or I quit. You decide. The end result was I didn't work more classes than I was contracted for or work without being compensated.

School 3 - I signed a 14 month contract, worked 13, and we mutually agreed to end early because the students took finals in the 14th month and I would have only taught 1 or 2 weeks. I was able to get this school earlier and move in. I lost money in the sense I didn't get the 14 months, but I figured 13 was good enough. No one complained, and there was no sign of firing or "quitting" in the sense there was dissonance. I was very happy to work that year and one month.

School 4 - It has been very good here in relation to the students and English department. The administration on the other hand views people as servants rather than teachers. The attitude is quite "elite". They have a lady using outdated English expressions, she is among the dying breed. Hopefully, someone will replace her with a more modern approach.



Is this just your China schools list? I'd be interested in seeing the full list including Korea and Japan as well, if not.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is this just your China schools list? I'd be interested in seeing the full list including Korea and Japan as well, if not.


Sure, here ya go:

JAPAN

I worked for Nova in Japan for 3 months. They are now defunct. They promised students a lot of classes, 3 year contracts. After a year or so, they needed more teachers to satisfy the agreements, that's where I was hired, and well, it didn't work out for them and Ministry of Economy. Their Osaka main branch was raided, goodbye Nova.

I found a smaller franchise school, worked 3.5 years. No complaints, but after 2 years, I saw what I had to see in Kyoto, Japan. I went back to USA.

KOREA

I decided to embark on Korean territory. It was a windy, gusty morning. While sipping my green tea from Japan, I decided to try out Korea.

I worked in a rural area, high salary job, and then after 6 months I voyaged into Seoul, Gangnam Style. Yet, the school wasn't in Gangnam, it was north, near Uijeongbu. I worked there hoping to be closer to my ex-Korean girlfriend. Then, I moved and worked in Gyeonggido to be closer to her. I finished the 1 year contract and we broke up during this time.

I went to Incheon, signed a contract with manager 1. Manager 1 left, managers 2 and 3 came and went, upheld agreements I made with manager 1, but manager 4 wanted to make new rules similar to my current school (a blah blah university, but that doesn't mean they are better).

I came to China, in Shanghai and studied a bit. Then, I decided to teach again.

Any more questions?
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Teacher Jack



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 63
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such a mix up...and it was always the school's fault. Laughing
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zactherat



Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote-"chinatimes"]my ex-Korean girlfriend. [/quote]

She got a new nationality? wow ~

Seems like you emerged free as a bird though.. hmm..


But seriously,
someone that habitually severs themselves from their past is always going to raise suspicion. Even if it's in the name of self-progression (or ever-longer holidays).

Thanks for actually posting your work history, it's really interesting. I mean you have a ton of varied experience and you're still dealing with entry level crap.

Why?
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Such a mix up...and it was always the school's fault.


I didn't say that. If it were 100% mine though, why would they pay me? Why would I pick and choose departure times? I have actually only had one school initiate the end to something, and that was from an interview in Japan. They saw the 3 month thing at Nova and didn't want to hire me until I had 6 months experience. Well, I got 3.5 years at another school who didn't care about the 3 months (I am still in contact with them and email my replacement a few times a year). Yes, it was the school's fault for letting me work 3.5 years there. I should have quit earlier. Now do you get it?

I also regret not traveling around Japan much because I stayed at one school, one location. That was a big factor in moving around a lot in Korea. In China, I am inching my way closer to schools I can attend as a student while teaching. I hope this isn't a problem for you. I would hate to know that I spend my time gallivanting from school to school to better myself and not include you in the decision process. Are you alright with this?

Quote:
habitually severs themselves from their past is always going to raise suspicion.


Well, playing with words out of context also raises suspicion. What do you do when you sever your past and teach in a country where you have no past? I don't see your point that because I leave bad situations or when good situations become bad I am now somehow at fault.

Quote:
I mean you have a ton of varied experience and you're still dealing with entry level crap.

Why?


You prefer to pick one place and work there your whole life, that's your prerogative. I would ask why, but it's your prerogative. Why does it matter so much to you that I choose to teach at different schools instead of enslaving myself at one? I only see the owners of schools benefit from long stays (for obvious reasons).

The reason why you might be wondering about "entry level crap" is that:

1) This is my first college position, so I am not "still" dealing with entry level crap at a college. I took this job just to see what it would be like. I have liked it, and in order to teach more effectively at a better college and get respect, I feel I will need to further my education. So, I will live closer to the central part of Beijing, use my RMB I have saved up and study. I will become more qualified and perhaps re-enter the college scene with a better "entry". Is this a problem for you? Are we married? Do I have to get your permission to live my life and make my own decisions?

2) In Japan, I taught adults mostly. These were 1 to 1 or as they say "man to man" classes. I did the entry thing there, stayed at one school for 3.5 years (which in my mind is actually too long) and then went to Korea where I taught mostly kids. I did the entry thing with the kids, worked at language schools, got experience, and then worked at a public school. I varied that by taking an after school position at a public school, and then in China I worked with high school students before coming to this college. Yes, I haven't selected one age bracket. I haven't stuck to Plan A all the way. I am happy with the variety. Is this a problem for you? Are we married? Do I have to get your permission to live my life and make my own decisions?
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Quitting a university job before holidays question Reply with quote

chinatimes wrote:
Actually, it's a debate........What are your opinions?



chinatimes wrote:
Is this a problem for you? Are we married? Do I have to get your permission to live my life and make my own decisions?


Embarassed
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Quitting a university job before holidays question Reply with quote

choudoufu wrote:
chinatimes wrote:
Actually, it's a debate........What are your opinions?



chinatimes wrote:
Is this a problem for you? Are we married? Do I have to get your permission to live my life and make my own decisions?


Embarassed


I was asking for an opinion about the holiday break, not whether or not I should leave the school and get another one.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think by now you have accepted that being paid for Jan-Feb is an incentive for those who commit for a full academic year and recognises the continuing employment relationship.
If Admin's view of you is already not positive, your attempt to get paid for a period where you've long gone from campus is on the arrogant side IMHO.
Try for half the airfare instead. It is often on offer for one semester contracts.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
I think by now you have accepted that being paid for Jan-Feb is an incentive for those who commit for a full academic year and recognises the continuing employment relationship.
If Admin's view of you is already not positive, your attempt to get paid for a period where you've long gone from campus is on the arrogant side IMHO.
Try for half the airfare instead. It is often on offer for one semester contracts.


It wasn't positive in the interview. Did you read my posts in this thread? I actually turned down the job as a result of the interview and the Admin who interviewed me. It is them that changed the class and then when I questioned about next semester, this all of a sudden happens.

The question was simply whether or not the holiday time was a legal obligation or not. That's all it was. If it was, then I would ask for half of that since I worked half the year.

My view of the school is also not positive either, I am the one that mentioned ending the contract if my workload was to go up from the contracted hours. They "accepted" it but then showed me a schedule which didn't show the extra hours.

The school is set up to pass the buck and transfer students to a better college, let that college solve the students' problems. All this school wants to do is coddle the students and get their money. I don't blame them, you get rich parents in Beijing whose child didn't make it to a top school, pay teachers half the normal salary, boost the workload to 20 classes, then you give the students good grades instead. The better colleges see the better grades and accept the students. However, they are in for a surprise when the student can't perform to the level their grades portray them as.

Anyway, let's try to get another issue resolved. Notice, what kind of "written notice" is required or can either party just end things at the end of the semester? Can I try to get my half by claiming I never got written notice? If they don't want to pay the half anyway, then has anyone enforced a (lack of) termination of contract notice?

Also, the breach penalty. How is this enforced? If either party gave written notice, I don't think this would necessarily mean they breached it.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you read your contract? The standard SAFEA contract states pretty clearly how the contract can be terminated by either party and when a breach penalty is to be paid. how it all ends up will depend on the level of nastiness, or absence thereof, between Party A and party B.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Javelin of Radiance wrote:
Have you read your contract? The standard SAFEA contract states pretty clearly how the contract can be terminated by either party and when a breach penalty is to be paid. how it all ends up will depend on the level of nastiness, or absence thereof, between Party A and party B.


Yes, I read my contract, but that doesn't really tell me how to enforce what is written. As you have noted, if things get nasty I am more than willing to take any action if necessary. However, by the looks of it, I have an interview next week with a new school and I'll see how that goes.

It has always been better to cut losses and move on, I am curious from someone who may have actually gone through the process. Were you able to collect or was it just a lot of headaches and settling for just 2,000 RMB? Or did you get something more substantial like 8,000-10,000 RMB after a few weeks of making a claim?
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, have not been thru the process. But the first level of resolution is with the employer directly. If you can't work things out with them then you either move on or take it to the next level that being the local employment office that deals with these affairs. I can't add any more than that.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the local employment office


Does that mean for Beijing the center of Beijing or just the district I am in?
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience think 8-10000.
The Chinese won't see any fault on their side.
The black list is too much of a downside to risk the other alternative which is to do a 'runner'.
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