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Ivan Denisovich 50 years on
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well in that case I bow down before you in awe for your superior intellect. Actually, it was 47 years ago. Send me a sticker with the sickle and hammer and I will display it prominently.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9356
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need for bowing and scraping. In the socialist paradise we raise all men up to be equals, through education and a thorough grounding in Marxist dialectic.

Cannot send you a sticker, but here's a lovely little electronic image for you: http://us.cdn3.123rf.com/168nwm/tribalium123/tribalium1231209/tribalium123120900214/15236129-symbol-of-ussr--hammer-and-sickle-hammer-sickle-and-laurel-wreath.jpg

Could even be used as your avatar.

And if you want, you can order some tasteful Communist t-shirts (made in the People's Republic of China too).

http://www.allposters.com/-sp/CCCP-Hammer-Sickle-Posters_i8375965_.htm
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he only English translation authorized by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

First published in the Soviet journal Novy Mir in 1962, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich stands as a classic of contemporary literature. The story of labor-camp inmate Ivan Denisovich Shukhov, it graphically describes his struggle to maintain his dignity in the face of communist oppression. An unforgettable portrait of the entire world of Stalin's forced work camps, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich is one of the most extraordinary literary documents to have emerged from the Soviet Union and confirms Solzhenitsyn's stature as "a literary genius whose talent matches that of Dosotevsky, Turgenev, Tolstoy"--Harrison Salisbury

This unexpurgated 1991 translation by H. T. Willetts is the only authorized edition available and fully captures the power and beauty of the original Russian.


Sasha

The indignity of his Soviet oppression was the menial work that he had to do. There was nothing ennobling about the work.

Your take is one I take exception to. There is no

Quote:
The dignity of labour is chief amongst them.


The work he did was degrading. He maintained his dignity in spite of it.


Last edited by geaaronson on Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here from Wikipedia

quote]Slander

The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of "slander" (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech), each of which gives a common law right of action.

"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication.[8] The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander.
Libel

Libel is defined as defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.[9] The law of libel originated in the 17th century in England. With the growth of publication came the growth of libel and development of the tort of libel.[10][/quote]


Last edited by geaaronson on Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here it is from Wikipedia

Quote:
quote]Slander

The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of "slander" (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech), each of which gives a common law right of action.

"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication.[8] The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander.
Libel
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here from Merriam Webster

1slan·der

noun
Definition of SLANDER
1
: the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation
2
: a false and defamatory oral statement about a person — compare libel
— slan·der·ous adjective
— slan·der·ous·ly adverb
— slan·der·ous·ness noun

She is being sued for slander.
He was a target of slander.
We've heard countless unsupported slanders about her.

Origin of SLANDER
Middle English sclaundre, slaundre, from Anglo-French esclandre, alteration of escandle, from Late Latin scandalum stumbling block, offense — more at scandal
First Known Use: 14th century
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9356
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geaaronson, could you look up Scots law while you are at it, please?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9356
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geaaronson wrote:
Their is no

Quote:
The dignity of labour is chief amongst them.


The work he did was degrading. He maintained his dignity in spite of it.


Do you mean 'there is no...'?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9356
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To get back to the original point of this thread, Ivan, and all his team-mates, evince a far deeper understanding of labour and workmanship while being locked up in a camp, than anyone outside ever did. Ivan takes pride in doing his work properly, for the sake of doing it as well as his natural talents allow him to. There is dignity in doing this. It is his craft, and he loves it - more than a 'free' worker would have perhaps. (In the same way, the camp poets and philosophers find themselves in a perverse position of being the only free thinkers and writers in the country.)
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanx Sasha about "their/there". My fingers have a mind of their own. I don´t like committing thelmadatterisms.

I´m glad you outlined the novel. I never particularly liked it, but neither did it appear on my "bad classic list". The latter is reserved for the Great Gatsby, Nadja, and the Power and the Glory.

Apparently the book made a strong impression on you. I much preferred the two Steinbeck novels, THE GRAPES OF WRATH and IN DUBIOUS BATTLE. Both deal with labor issues. Of the two, if you are a true trade unionist, you might seriously consider reading the latter.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9356
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the novel, though well-written, is an attack on all my deeply-held principles. It made no impression on me other than how artfully the enemies of the People can weave their lies.

The Grapes of Wrath, however, is both an example of fine writing, and of solid proletarian values ( which are contrasted sharply with Piggies values in America ). Meets with full Party approval.

I have not read the latter Steinbeck, but I thank you for your recommendation.
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad we found LAS UVAS de IRA in common. It has always been one of my favorites. The movie with Henry Fonda was excellent as well. IN DUBIOUS BATTLE follows a work stoppage in a Californian farm. It gets particularly nasty with several fatalities from reactionary death squads.
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I. The Reputational Tort

Defamation is an invasion of an individual's interest in his/her reputation. 5 Witkin, Summary of Cal. Law (9th ed. 1988), Torts, § 471, p. 557. The defamation tort may be either libel or slander. Civil Code section 44.

Libel is a false and unprivileged writing or other fixed communication that exposes the subject "to hatred, contempt, ridicule, or obloquy, or which causes him to be shunned or avoided, or which has a tendency to injure him in his occupation." 5 Witkin at § 45.

Slander is libel's spoken counterpart and includes radio or television broadcasts. 5 Witkin at § 46. Unprivileged publications actionable as slander include those falsely (1) charging a person with a crime or with having been indicted, convicted or punished for crime; (2) imputing the presence of a contagious, loathsome disease; (3) injuring the reputation of a person in their trade or business; (4) imputing impotence or lack of chastity; or (5) causing actual damage.


The above was excerpted from Attorney Daniel`s website

http://billdanielslaw.com/docs/Prosecuting-a-Defamation-Case.htm

The controversy rages on. Citing Scottish word derivation is merely diversionary tactics, exactly what would be expected from a devious, Communist operative. Real power to the people, destroy the Communist state and raise the flag of freedom. Resurrect 29 million kulaks from their graves. Stop Soviet aggression against Eastern Europe. Remember Hungary 1956, Czeckoslovakia in 1968. Only 4 million Communist members could vote for political representatives for most of 20th century. Hah, dictatorship of the oligarchy is hardly democracy....May you choke on...glugglugglug, GULAG, glug,glug on your blind fanatical devotion to the fools of history. Stay buried forever, may the shoe remain on the other foot, and the temper tantrums at the UN fade from memory.
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geaaronson



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libel is both slander and written libel.

Slander, however, is only oral.

You used the word slander. I will hold you to that.

Stop the diversionary tacticts.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9356
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which thread are we on?
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