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Teaching Adults in Taiwan...
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atreyue wrote:
That would depend on a myriad of factors - experience, degree, and length of stay in Taiwan. If you believe you'll make "say $750/hr" as a wide eyed, no experience 24-year old - walk in - forget it.


Can you please stop prevaricating. What is the "decent rate" you talk about getting at David's?
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teacher4life



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't mind romanworld, he just doesn't understand reality in Taiwan.
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atreyue



Joined: 07 May 2010
Posts: 33
Location: Taipei, Taiwan - The Rain Capital Of Asia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it would be easy enough to find out wouldn't it? Go to your nearest David's and apply - or call, or write them a letter.

If I shot a figure out to you - you'd decry it as not "decent" enough for your consideration. You'll have to fill out the application yourself.

And for teacher4life (questionable)

Quote:
Don't mind romanworld, he just doesn't understand reality in Taiwan.


You're questioning my stance on reality when I read this from you?

Quote:
Goodbye to all you unqualified, drunken, tattoo-faced, cant-speak-a-lick-of-Chinese suburban punks on a lark!

Taiwan is happily finally casting those types out in favor of genuinely qualified teachers of a far higher caliber.

Their days are numbered and so they come to boards like this and lie to each other to try for one last breath of hope before they too get axed once and for all.


Really? Asshat?

Quote:
Some of you are just trying to be combative. Boo-hoo.


Yes, you are.
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teacher4life



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might have better read that as "Just ignore romanworld."

Asshat! Ha!
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atreyue



Joined: 07 May 2010
Posts: 33
Location: Taipei, Taiwan - The Rain Capital Of Asia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed Egg on my face, sorry about that. I usually don't flare out my bitchy claws so readily. Embarassed

My whole intention was to say that teaching adults, and doing it as a thriving venture, is very possible in Taipei, at a good rate. If I was left to teach children as a means to survive than I would not survive long.
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 400
Location: off the radar

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you gentlemen for providing some entertainment for the gallery. It always amuses me to see people who live in the same country, yet have totally different opinions on apparent facts.

Regardless, it would seem teaching adults isn't that lucrative in Taiwan and would require doing odd hours, something I'm trying to get out of myself.

Surely though there is a market for pre-university students though who are getting ready for IELTS/TOEIC tests?
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurtz wrote:
Thank you gentlemen for providing some entertainment for the gallery. It always amuses me to see people who live in the same country, yet have totally different opinions on apparent facts.


But some facts are truer than others and here are a few:
1. Salaries are low for English teachers in Taiwan, especially at the university level. Actually, salaries are low across most industries in Taiwan period.
2. Most work in Taiwan for English teachers is with kids; the adult market is very limited.

Quote:
Surely though there is a market for pre-university students though who are getting ready for IELTS/TOEIC tests?


Yes, there is a market but the buxibans take up the slack in this area. And most buxibans employ Taiwanese English teachers to teach these subjects because they are cheaper. This may go some way to explaining why Taiwan always finds itself located at the bottom of the IELTS/TOEFL league tables. This article published recently in the China Post hits the nail on the head:

Taiwan lags behind Asian countries in English

TAIPEI--Taiwan ranked ninth among 12 Asian countries rated in an English skills index published in Chinese Monday, outperforming only Vietnam, China and Thailand.
The result was reported by Education First, an international education company, that rated 1.7 million adults from 54 countries globally from 2009-11 based on tests covering English listening and reading proficiency.

Taiwan ranked ninth in Asia and 30th in the world and its global ranking was within the 26th-38th range that represents low proficiency, according to the company's English Proficiency Index.

Singapore, Malaysia, India and Pakistan, countries where English is an official language, led Asian countries in the rankings, followed by South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong and Indonesia.

Globally, European countries, led by Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Finland and Norway, topped the list.

Commenting on Singapore and Malaysia's English skills, Education First Senior Vice President Christopher McCormick said the two nations have higher proficiencies because their populations are composed of multiple ethnic groups who rely on English to communicate.

Although South Korea (21st overall) and Japan (22nd overall) put a high priority on education, the lack of an English-speaking environment, the focus on memorization and the passive interaction between teachers and students led to their proficiency levels falling below the OECD average, he said.


http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2012/11/06/359987/Taiwan-lags.htm

Maybe if the Taiwanese were prepared to pay better salaries they might attract better (English) teachers who could fix the problem. But alas all the good teachers have gone, which means Taiwan's dismal performance is destined to get even worse. Relegation to oblivion is not far off . . .
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kurtz



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 400
Location: off the radar

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Romanworld, very interesting. I was pencilling in Taiwan as a maybe, but I might have to check out the alternatives a bit more.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurtz wrote:
Thanks Romanworld, very interesting. I was pencilling in Taiwan as a maybe, but I might have to check out the alternatives a bit more.


Yeah, you might wanna pencil it out. Taiwan is going down the drain fast.
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ncaraway



Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deleted by author

Last edited by ncaraway on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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KaiFeng



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 88
Location: At the top of the food chain.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lived in Taipei for 20 years, and by the end (1998) was charging most (and all new) clients NT$1500 an hour, and making about US$10K a month. A while back I posted a series here on how to achieve that level of income, based on my experiences. So, even allowing for Taiwan's current economic doldrums, I can only shake my head when people crow about NT$600 or NT$750 hourly rates here. Let me share some observations regarding this thread.

1. When the China Post reports on poor English, I smile and thank God for such ready-made marketing material, and buy ten or twenty copies. Half I send to selected existing clients, to reinforce their satisfaction in working with me, and half I send to prospects I'd like to work with. Has anyone here done this?

2. When the gov't or whoever drives out low-end teachers, I thank God for its help in suppressing competition, thereby increasing demand. This only makes it easier for folks who are established in the market.

3. University jobs notoriously pay crap. But, and this is a big "but", they have awesome professional benefits:

- You market yourself as "Prof. Jones"- immense cachet.
- You have direct access to all the companies looking for qualified teachers, before the vast majority of the competition.
- For a few hours a week in the class, you get an ARC, health care, etc.
- Over the long haul (I lived there for 20 years), your geeky college students become professionals, and will frequently reach out to you for business opportunitires.
- Universities are nearly unmatched venues for networking.

I taught at one for several years as an adjunct, and experienced all this. I have friends who still do, and this has also been their experience.

I'll be visiting Taiwan for a couple of weeks' hard-earned vacation this month, and cannot wait to see old friends and clients and bookstores again!
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KaiFeng wrote:
I lived in Taipei for 20 years, and by the end (1998) was charging most (and all new) clients NT$1500 an hour, and making about US$10K a month. A while back I posted a series here on how to achieve that level of income, based on my experiences. So, even allowing for Taiwan's current economic doldrums, I can only shake my head when people crow about NT$600 or NT$750 hourly rates here. Let me share some observations regarding this thread.

1. When the China Post reports on poor English, I smile and thank God for such ready-made marketing material, and buy ten or twenty copies. Half I send to selected existing clients, to reinforce their satisfaction in working with me, and half I send to prospects I'd like to work with. Has anyone here done this?

2. When the gov't or whoever drives out low-end teachers, I thank God for its help in suppressing competition, thereby increasing demand. This only makes it easier for folks who are established in the market.

3. University jobs notoriously pay crap. But, and this is a big "but", they have awesome professional benefits:

- You market yourself as "Prof. Jones"- immense cachet.
- You have direct access to all the companies looking for qualified teachers, before the vast majority of the competition.
- For a few hours a week in the class, you get an ARC, health care, etc.
- Over the long haul (I lived there for 20 years), your geeky college students become professionals, and will frequently reach out to you for business opportunitires.
- Universities are nearly unmatched venues for networking.

I taught at one for several years as an adjunct, and experienced all this. I have friends who still do, and this has also been their experience.

I'll be visiting Taiwan for a couple of weeks' hard-earned vacation this month, and cannot wait to see old friends and clients and bookstores again!


Did you know that working at a university and doing private work is illegal in Taiwan, unless you get permission from the university that sponsors you? If you are discovered working illegally, you risk losing not only all those "awesome professional benefits" but also your sponsorship and hence your visa.
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KaiFeng



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 88
Location: At the top of the food chain.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

romanworld wrote:
KaiFeng wrote:
I lived in Taipei for 20 years, and by the end (1998) was charging most (and all new) clients NT$1500 an hour, and making about US$10K a month. A while back I posted a series here on how to achieve that level of income, based on my experiences. So, even allowing for Taiwan's current economic doldrums, I can only shake my head when people crow about NT$600 or NT$750 hourly rates here. Let me share some observations regarding this thread.

[much wisdom deleted to save space]

I'll be visiting Taiwan for a couple of weeks' hard-earned vacation this month, and cannot wait to see old friends and clients and bookstores again!


Did you know that working at a university and doing private work is illegal in Taiwan, unless you get permission from the university that sponsors you? If you are discovered working illegally, you risk losing not only all those "awesome professional benefits" but also your sponsorship and hence your visa.


Yes and no, and as (I think) a long-term Taiwan resident I am sure this will make sense to you. I started out as an adjunct for years at Cheng-ta, and no one cared. Later I was on staff at Tamkang, where the ESL department chair personally invited me to join a language school he was starting on the side! And other colleagues of mine still in Taiwanese universities invariably have outside gigs. So we can only conclude that the question is not whether it is illegal; the question is whether it is enforced. As you correctly note, permission should be sought, ideally.

Additionally, there are many ways to go about such "multi-tasking". One is not a teacher; one is a "language consultant" as my business cards say. Or one is a language researcher working to improve teaching methods. Or one's spouse has a company for which one is a consultant. One is only limited by one's relentless drive and imagination.

Also, I would suggest that the highest levels of income are corporate gigs and editing/writing/translation. On a NT$/hour basis, they paid higher than anything else. But the teaching, especially colleges/universities, are good for ARC and health insurance, even though they pay less. With those basics covered, you are free to push for pure revenue with everything else.


Last edited by KaiFeng on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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teacher4life



Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KaiFeng wrote:
One is only limited by one's relentless drive and imagination.


This is gonna be a tough one for romanworld to grasp. Laughing
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KaiFeng wrote:
As you correctly note, permission should be sought, ideally.


Yes, it should, especially in these hard times when so many young Taiwanese graduates are jobless and Taiwan is looking for scapegoats. Compared with Korea, Taiwan is a bit of a soft touch, but be assured they'll start executing the law more rigorously when the austerity really kicks in.
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