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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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geaaronson
Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 948 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:25 am Post subject: |
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I am trying to get you to see the illogic of your thinking.
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With regard to the complexities of libel and slander, consider that TV stations in breach of whatever defamation laws are applicable are normally sued for libel, not slander. This is so even though the offending comments were spoken on air. Not such a simple written/oral distinction as it may seem at first, eh? |
Sasha
TV stations are oral communicators. Yes,`when they defame someone orally on TV it is not only slander but libelous. But we are not talking about oral communication.
We are talking about written communication. And written communication is always libelous, not slanderous as you claimed. And yes, it is defamatory.
Below is an example of the illogic of your thinking.
A cat is a mammal.
A dog is a mammal.
A cat is not a dog.
Yet that is exactly how you are thinking through this issue of defamation, libel and slander.
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Geaaronson
Please post on the appropriate thread. Posting here is illogical. Follow the link above. What do you need, a court order? |
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geaaronson
Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 948 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I continued to write on this thread as you asked me a question as to why I am writing on this thread. I answered on this thread. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: |
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Tell it to the judge!
Let's go back to the original topic of this thread. The posts become more interesting then. |
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geaaronson
Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 948 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:59 am Post subject: |
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To you it is more interesting. I doubt that there are many interested in the novel. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Well, 'tis the topic of this thread. No one is under any obligation to contribute to it. But if they do post, then it is more interesting when the content of their posts relates directly to the topic. For example, the comparisons and contrasts with other camp literature and Socialist writers make for more engaging dialogue than anything else here. |
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Qaaolchoura
Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 539 Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I've never read the novel, but I'll add it to my list of great Russian literature I need to read. (Despite your protestations, I can tell that you secretly admire it Sasha.)
geaaronson: the argument you've been trying to have is very boring, and I don't see the point. Even if you were right, your argument would be pointless, since it stems from your attempt at playing "gotcha" over a minor semantic quibble. Why don't you stop digging, brush yourself off, and bow nicely out?
~Q |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Read it if you must. However, do not get caught in possession of a copy. The authorities will add you to the list of possible cosmopolitan subversives.
Reading it, be aware of its highly 'novelistic' structure. The story ends as it starts, with the clanging of the iron rail by the guard. There are regular repeated actions, such as smoking a cigarette, which form an almost architectural plan underlying all else - if a cigarette was not smoked at its appointed time, you'd feel the need to smoke one yourself. The movement of the sun is tracked regularly too, to mark the passage of the day of course, but it also provides a lovely vignette of Ivan not understanding the concept of daylight-saving-time and thus believes that Soviet power is so great it can alter the position of the sun in the sky by decree.
Ivan is on one level a linking device which allows the reader to glimpse all the other personages, and see their essence. The sick-bay orderly/poet writing freer than he had ever done before; the Baptist who stands for idealism, the philosophers debating the merits of Eisenstein's films, juxtaposed like The School of Athens, one pointing to the sky, the other to the earth. Kh-123's number shows us where he stands logically.
Ah, the list goes on. Find out for yourself how skilled in the cunning art of destabilisation is the dissident... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I read the book when it first came out, in English, in 1963. I can still recall the deep impression it made upon me.
I read much of Solzhenitsyn's later work, as well, but none of those books had quite as strong an impact on me.
Regards,
John |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Dear Johnslat
Yes, many people remark on how his later books didn't re-create the shock of Ivan. But, it would be hard to repeat, would it not?
In any case, In the First Circle is regularly seized by my secret police, so maybe have a read of that if you haven't already done so.
Sasha |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Those who have compared Solzhenitsyn favourably to Tolstoy, Gogol and Dostoyevsky are clearly in error. An interesting writer but not one of the greats ! |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 3198 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Sashadroogie wrote: |
In America, you can always find a party.
In Soviet Union, Party always find you! |
What a country!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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There is no 'you' or 'me'! There is only WE |
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