Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Russia and Black People - What is the truth?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Russia & C.I.S.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
blackguy-n-Asia



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Russia and Black People - What is the truth? Reply with quote

I've been hearing stories for about a year now on how black people (people of colour, and asians) in Russia are attacked in daylight on the streets. How they are seen as disruptors and hooligans by the large majority of people there.

I was planning to go, but if I'm going to be jumped by 50 angry, ignorant workers in the streets, maybe I should hire a few bodyguards.

Any of you know the truth of how people percieve blacks in Russia?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
canucktechie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like being negative, but just about every teacher here has stories to tell about how their students perceive blacks and they are not good.

A black university student was beaten to death in Voronezh, south of Moscow, a couple of months ago.

I do occasionally see a black person here in Moscow, but having never met one, I have no idea what their experiences here are like.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
waxwing



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 719
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, perspective: I have about 10 months experience in Russia, in three cities (Moscow is one of them). I am white (English), and pass for Russian, more or less, in looks. Take my observations as you find them.

Reports of attacks on ethnic minorities are probably rather exaggerated by the media; but, no doubt, they do happen.

What is clear is that you will be stared at. Shocked .. although I suspect it will be even worse in China.
In Moscow (and doubtless Piter too), black people are absolutely a rarity, but they are there. I think we even have a couple of black pop stars here in Russia now Smile . However even in the 'cosmopolitan' big cities, you probably will be stared at quite a bit. As for how people will to react to you on meeting, I can't say.
Oh, btw, don't be shocked if they use the word 'nigr' (I have had to explain to Russians several times that 'nig.ger' is rude and 'black' is not - in their language it's not considered so). It's a good example of how there's a certain ignorance here about black or Afro-American or African cultures .. a big difference to Western Europe. The point is that there are just so few black people here.

Down here in Stavropol we have a lot of racial tension between the darker skinned 'Caucasian' nationalities and the ethnic Russians. There are a few Indians and Africans who come to study at the Medical Academy (which coincidentally is just across from my apartment). They do successfully live and study here, and socialise with local people.

At the end of the day, with the right attitude, everything is possible. Even for me it's a rather crazy decision to come and live here, and I understand why you would have even more doubts. But it can be done, with the right kind of attitude and confidence. Who knows, you might contribute a little bit to their education.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaneth



Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Between Russia and Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blacks are so rare here that I even find it hard not to stare at them. But when I do see someone from America or Africa they don't look like they're living in constant fear or anything. No bodyguards or harried expressions.

I think part of the issue is that Russians aren't PC shy about stating predjudices. I've had students come right out and tell me of dislikes for minorities. There are a lot of people from the South here. There's a definite visible minority here. I would think any political animosity would be directed at them, not at an obvious foreigner (from outside of the former Soviet Union).

The n-word thing was really shocking at first. But I think it's actually a mispronunciation of negro. Many of the students at my University found MLK Jr.'s speak funny. They had to memorize it. They couldn't seem to get past the way he used his voice. Not much appreciation for the seriousness of the issue.

And everybody knows Louis Armstrong. Not sure exactly why.

I do know some students interested in hip-hop culture.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Communist Smurf



Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 330
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am half-asian. I was once on a train on its way to Moscow talking to a Jewish person. We were talking about militzia checking people's documents and he said that I shouldn't worry about it because they only stop people that don't look Russian and that he gets stopped too much. I was a little confused by this statement. Although most people don't make this assumption, a few have assumed that I was Russian even when someone specifically asked, "where does it look like he's from?" Even though what he said confused me, I've found that what he said was true since I've only been stopped twice ever.

I've never experience racism here myself. When I first got here, people warned me a lot to stay away from certain places like Arbat, especially after soccer games. But I go to places like these all the time.

I see a black person about twice per week (rough guess). Only on one occasion did I hear some Russians talking bad about a group of black men that left a big mess in a pizza shop.

I don't think people in *Moscow* will stare at you. The only ethnic groups I've seen experience racism are Caucasians and Jews, of the non-violent type. I think they kinda group Arabs in with Caucasians.

By the way, they definetely say n***** and it's not a mispronounciation of negro. But they don't mean it in a harsh way (I don't think, or atleast not as harsh if we used it in English).

As far as Louis Armstrong, I was told that back in the 80s, every Russian teen wanted to grow up and be a cosmonaut. Just one theory.

Yeah, there is one black Russian pop star. Pierre Nartsis, I think is his name.

CS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gordon



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Communist Smurf wrote:

As far as Louis Armstrong, I was told that back in the 80s, every Russian teen wanted to grow up and be a cosmonaut. Just one theory.


Laughing Louis Armstrong was a jazz musician. You're thinking of Neil Armstrong. Thanks for the laugh. Laughing Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blackguy-n-Asia



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's alot of info, thanks.

The stares are very natural. If I had never seen a person of a different colour, i would also stare, and I do expect ALOT of staers in Asia and Russia.

So, why do they say the N-word if there isn't alot of black people around? Unless they use it to describe black people?

ZANETH -who is MLK J'r? Is that Micheal Jackson?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Communist Smurf



Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 330
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon wrote:
Communist Smurf wrote:

As far as Louis Armstrong, I was told that back in the 80s, every Russian teen wanted to grow up and be a cosmonaut. Just one theory.


Laughing Louis Armstrong was a jazz musician. You're thinking of Neil Armstrong. Thanks for the laugh. Laughing Laughing


Whoops... Call it a generational gap...? Perhaps I can blame it on long hours at work. Anything to distract you from noticing what a tupoy kazeol I just made of myself, including throwing around Russian words that you might need to look up in order to forget what I said.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
canucktechie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZANETH -who is MLK J'r? Is that Micheal Jackson?

Is that a joke or are you serious? I guess you've never heard of Nelson Mandela either Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaneth



Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Between Russia and Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CT, you took the words right out of my mouth. Martin Luther King Jr.? You know? Maybe you've seen the street signs? Or maybe he's more of a Malcolm X man.

Gordon, thanks for the clarification. I couldn't figure out what Smurf was talking about with cosmonauts. Thought maybe he was attacking my statement as a dubious generalization?

Oh, one more thing. Pushkin, Russia's greatest poet, had an african forebear. Look closely at the portraits. A number of students have pointed this out to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blackguy-n-Asia



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up in Canada, we don't use acronyms as much as you all.

MLK sounds like BLT, and looks like a miss-type of MILK. Would you type Nelson Mandela as NM?

Zaneth, you are using strange wording again. What is forebear? I think you are using the word in a wrong way. Do you mean ancestry?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12447
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear blackguy-n-asia,
Nope, zaneth's using it correctly:

Main Entry: fore·bear
Pronunciation: -"bar, -"ber
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English (Sc), from fore- + -bear (from been to be)
: ANCESTOR, FOREFATHER; also : PRECURSOR -- usually used in plural

maybe you were thinking of this word, a pretty close match in spelling

Main Entry: 1for·bear
Pronunciation: for-'bar, f&r-, -'ber
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): for·bore /-'bOr, -'bor/; for·borne /-'bOrn, -'born/; -bear·ing
Etymology: Middle English forberen, from Old English forberan to endure, do without, from for- + beran to bear
transitive senses
1 obsolete : to do without
2 : to hold oneself back from especially with an effort
3 obsolete : to leave alone : SHUN <forbear his presence -- Shakespeare>
intransitive senses
1 : HOLD BACK, ABSTAIN <can write with ease what I forbear to read -- Flannery O'Connor>
2 : to control oneself when provoked : be patient
- for·bear·er noun

Regards,
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blackguy-n-Asia



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double-plus good Very Happy

I prefer the Queens' english, not a vid from 1984, or A Clockwork Orange. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaneth



Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Between Russia and Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, African Canadian. Different culture. Sorry for the assumption.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blackguy-n-Asia



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I haven't lived enough to know all the short words for major people, but thanks for the info.

I'm fairly shocked by the developments in Russia. Here in Toronto, I have alot of Russian girls as friends, and they seem very friendly, even less trouble to date than other Canadian girls. You would think that in Russia, most people are friendly in this way. There also isn't a history of friction between blacks and Russians as there are in the Americas or Europe, so I' m a little shocked at the racism. I think it may be a resurgence of Nationalism.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Russia & C.I.S. All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC