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Why are employers in China so awful?
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the lowlander



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 171
Location: The Oort Cloud

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat_chris,

What's the "huh"?

Can't you spot the multiple mistakes?
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the lowlander



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 171
Location: The Oort Cloud

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: China jobs Reply with quote

teachingld2004 wrote:
Guess I am lucky. My job is great.
I am not in a big city, and i wanted it that way.

I was in contact with many universities, and her is why I choose this one:

The boss has great English, and on my third e-mali he gave me he e-main address of a coupe who had been here for 4 years.

they told me that many of the foreign teachers stay, one had been here for 2 years, and one 4. Two had been here for 3 years.

there is some crazy rule that you can not stay more then 5 years. you have to eave for 6 months and you can come back.

There is nothing very exciting to do here, but there is always the bus and the train. travel is not a lot of money.

granted this place is not for everyone. if you want bright lights and a big city,, do not come here.

but we get a good amount of vacation time, and the staff is really nice, and they speak english.

Just check things out as best as you can.

I have worked in Korea and got stuck plenty with some awful bosses.


Native speaker?

English teacher?

Spot the multiple mistakes.

Make your own mind up.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Native speaker?

English teacher?

Spot the multiple mistakes.

Make your own mind up.


What does it matter?

Quote:
Unfortunately, unqualified "teachers" who could not string a grammatically correct sentence together abound in China, and elsewhere for that matter, and they drive down the salaries and the credibility of genuine EFL teachers in this field.


Genuine? I am not sure there is a genuine esl teacher unless your speaking about those with an education degree and explain how does these so called unqualified teachers "bring down" salaries. I would guess that the reason most have a job in China is not due to qualifications but it is more related to nationality or the fact that they speak English whether their skills are good or bad. As far as FT's go this is not an industry. They are merely product being packaged and sold. Kind of like the "Twinkies" of the esl world; not real but consumable.
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: China jobs Reply with quote

the lowlander wrote:
Make your own mind up.


I did make up my mind...back when I posted the "huh?" message.

I think you need to do a bit more to prove that he is a recruiter in order to for your argument to be more convincing.

NoBillyNO wrote:
What does it matter?


Seconded.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: China jobs Reply with quote

fat_chris wrote:
the lowlander wrote:
Make your own mind up.


I did make up my mind...back when I posted the "huh?" message.

I think you need to do a bit more to prove that he is a recruiter in order to for your argument to be more convincing.

NoBillyNO wrote:
What does it matter?


Seconded.

Warm regards,
fat_chris


Wow.

Really?

I thought he had valid points.

For some reason, the phrase 'drinking the Kool Aid' comes to mind when I read these responses to lowlander's messages. This forum is so weird.
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: China jobs Reply with quote

coratheexplorer wrote:
fat_chris wrote:
the lowlander wrote:
Make your own mind up.


I did make up my mind...back when I posted the "huh?" message.

I think you need to do a bit more to prove that he is a recruiter in order to for your argument to be more convincing.

NoBillyNO wrote:
What does it matter?


Seconded.

Warm regards,
fat_chris

Wow.

Really?

I thought he had valid points.

For some reason, the phrase 'drinking the Kool Aid' comes to mind when I read these responses to lowlander's messages. This forum is so weird.
+1
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: China jobs Reply with quote

coratheexplorer wrote:
For some reason, the phrase 'drinking the Kool Aid' comes to mind when I read these responses to lowlander's messages.


Let's put tired, overused cliches aside, shall we?

All I am saying is, it's easy to point fingers and make claims, but when someone does this, they had better be able to promote strong and clearly convincing arguments to erase all trace of doubt. I am simply stating that lowlander's arguments are a start, but they need to go further.

Stating "spot the multiple mistakes" is not enough. The "nom de plume" claim is nice, but it should be proven in order to be more convincing.

coratheexplorer wrote:
This forum is so weird.


When anybody can come on here and point fingers and make claims that are not entirely convincing, and when other posters are not entirely sure of these claims (in my case), and THEN other posters call them out simply because one is not sure (because I haven't "drunk the Kool-Aid" and just blindly accepted a claim), then yes, this forum can get weird.

That's all I'm sayin'.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: China jobs Reply with quote

fat_chris wrote:
coratheexplorer wrote:
For some reason, the phrase 'drinking the Kool Aid' comes to mind when I read these responses to lowlander's messages.


Let's put tired, overused cliches aside, shall we?

All I am saying is, it's easy to point fingers and make claims, but when someone does this, they had better be able to promote strong and clearly convincing arguments to erase all trace of doubt. I am simply stating that lowlander's arguments are a start, but they need to go further.

Stating "spot the multiple mistakes" is not enough. The "nom de plume" claim is nice, but it should be proven in order to be more convincing.

coratheexplorer wrote:
This forum is so weird.


When anybody can come on here and point fingers and make claims that are not entirely convincing, and when other posters are not entirely sure of these claims (in my case), and THEN other posters call them out simply because one is not sure (because I haven't "drunk the Kool-Aid" and just blindly accepted a claim), then yes, this forum can get weird.

That's all I'm sayin'.

Warm regards,
fat_chris


Such clichés are so used precisely because of how useful they are for efficiently conveying certain things in certain ways. Hence there's really no reason for them to be put aside-- at least, certainly not in colloquial settings like this.

Along those lines: "promote strongly & clearly," "erase all trace of doubt," "prove"...? Come on. This isn't a courtroom. He just raised an issue, a possible point. That's quite legit. And personally I think given even that one message from the member in question, the lowlander's point was sound. Begging to be raised, even.

For the record I'm a "fan of your work," fat_chris. You have built a good presence here and I always take your comments with some weight Wink But I think your allegiances are misplaced in this case and, silly as it may sound, I was kind of saddened to read them....
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jibbs



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:29 am    Post subject: Re: China jobs Reply with quote

the lowlander wrote:


Native speaker?

English teacher?

Spot the multiple mistakes.

Make your own mind up.


Or you could also read some of ld's older posts, none of which are being graded.
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: China jobs Reply with quote

coratheexplorer wrote:
For the record I'm a "fan of your work," fat_chris. You have built a good presence here and I always take your comments with some weight Wink But I think your allegiances are misplaced in this case and, silly as it may sound, I was kind of saddened to read them....


Many thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated! I never know if my posts are irritating or inspiring (or simply neither), so I am glad to hear from people to let me know...in both cases.

I also appreciate a good pun (and a bad one too!). No need to be saddened here--I have no allegiances in this matter. I just wanted to throw out the suggestion that maybe teachingld2004 is not a recruiter...perhaps.

As jibbs mentioned, I actually did go back and read some of teachingld2004's older posts and after looking at the language of his previous messages, I still wasn't convinced that he is a recruiter. However, maybe he is though...perhaps.

We are probably giving him much much more attention than he is properly due; nonetheless, let's ask him:

teachingld2004, are you a recruiter? Very Happy

Happy holidays everybody. Hopefully you all get a vacation and can enjoy it thoroughly. We all do deserve time off.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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the lowlander



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 171
Location: The Oort Cloud

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er....NoBillyNO.....
Quote:
"Genuine? I am not sure there is a genuine esl teacher"
Well, I'm sure that comment is guaranteed to offend more than just a few folk, and it says a lot about just how highly you view your own professionalism.

As for
Quote:
"explain how does these so called unqualified teachers "bring down" salaries"
I think it's high time someone introduced you to the laws of supply and demand.

And it's "do" not "does" !!
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Er....NoBillyNO.....
Quote:
"Genuine? I am not sure there is a genuine esl teacher"
Well, I'm sure that comment is guaranteed to offend more than just a few folk, and it says a lot about just how highly you view your own professionalism.

As for
Quote:
"explain how does these so called unqualified teachers "bring down" salaries"
I think it's high time someone introduced you to the laws of supply and demand.

And it's "do" not "does" !!


It would be a sad day if a posters comment offended anyone as it is just a personal opinion and I can only speak from experiences that I have encountered and professionalism in non professional employment is a matter of a personal goal as there is no regulatory agency to insure standards. It seems that since there is no authority as to what is qualified, (remember the laws often quoted on these pages are more like guidelines for local administration and have a lot of wiggle room) it then become another personal opinion and since all foreign teachers are view the same way, supply and demand is dictated by the warm and breathing bodies the "leaders" can put in front of a class. In other words you are viewed as being on the same level with those "unqualified teachers" that you have anointed as being less qualified that you perceive yourself as being. I reckon the fact that you can correct a post is your claim to fame and your credentials of qualification. This alone is unlikely to improve your employment opportunities over the unqualified masses that take up space in your supply and demand scenario.


Quote:
Such clichés are so used precisely because of how useful they are for efficiently conveying certain things in certain ways. Hence there's really no reason for them to be put aside-- at least, certainly not in colloquial settings like this.


A friend of mine calls these kind cliches "viral sheepal quotes". Much like cursing and bad language it shows a lack of thought or ingenuity.
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the lowlander



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 171
Location: The Oort Cloud

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Cora, I don't think I have much to add to what you said in reply to Chris.

I obviously can't "prove" that the poster in question is a recruiter, it's impossible.

However, a look at the language used in the post, and a quick trawl through the Guangdong jobs boards where one will quickly find a recruiter with an almost identical name, might lead one to believe that there was mischief afoot.

As for Chris' suggestion that he might come clean if we ask him, well, if he says no, how does he "prove" it?


Last edited by the lowlander on Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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the lowlander



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 171
Location: The Oort Cloud

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Billy, having attempted to read your last post, I now fully understand why you advocate unqualified teachers, and don't believe that genuine EFL professionals exist!

Quite frankly, would you let an unqualified individual perform surgery on your child?

Would you let an unqualified person repair your child's expensive computer?

Would you let an unqualified person fly the 747 taking your child on holiday?

No?

Then why is it alright to entrust your child's education to a person who couldn't string a coherent sentence together?

Unqualified "cowboy" teachers fuel the shoddy language mills and allow unscrupulous bosses to short-change both genuine teachers and hard working students alike.

Thankfully, regulation is coming to China, beginning with the upcoming reform of the visa system in July, and I personally can't wait to see the results.
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china505



Joined: 19 Sep 2012
Posts: 25
Location: Xi'an

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I read these stories of horrible employers, i take them with a grain of salt or simply that somebody got pissed off about something so they typed it out on the internet.

I have been here a few years, I have never been denied my salary and or bonuses or anything else I was entitled to per my contract and I happen to work for one of the companies listed in the OP. Furthermore, for my job, I travel to many different locations and although sometimes there are minor issues, once you are settled in, things get worked out. There always small issues that are often beyond the control of the employer and sometimes these issues set FTs off and lead to these boring internet posts. I was in a town and a teacher packed up their stuff and left because the power was out for 3 days....the power on the whole block was out because of a construction Fup...its china.

People come here all the time and expect things to be done exactly like they are done in their home country and thats an unreasonable expectation for the most part.
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