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30 teaching hours a week
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2314
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood.
Best
NS
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citadel



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 60
Location: Over the river and through the woods.....

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason, working 25 hours in an overseas posts is tiresome, at least in my experience.

In the States, it is pretty standard to have 30 contact hours and five planning periods a week. It wasn't a problem nor was it tiresome. We had more than enough materials and a very structured curriculum ( under NCLB of course) to follow.

I think it has got a lot to do with more planning involved. Schools, even the top tier, are not fully supplied with materials and some, if not many, have loosely defined curriculum.

I would ask about the materials that are readily available and the details of the curriculum. Then make the decision..
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2314
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Away from WSE of which I have little experience, all the Oral English gigs I've had lacked resources and curriculum.
Also you don't get any downtime in class as the idea that Chinese students will discuss things in English in small breakout groups is a fallacy.
They will discuss the topic in Chinese and the best of them will volunteer to report the result.
Most situations I've been in called for the same lesson to be repeated 8 or 9 times in the same week. Ramp that up to 14 or 15 times and I would be gone in a month.
Sure the ability to deal with repetition and make each lesson worthwhile for the students is something we have to deal with as FTs, but there is a limit.
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 2522
Location: Chengdu, Sichuan, PRC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
Ramp that up to 14 or 15 times and I would be gone in a month.
Sure the ability to deal with repetition and make each lesson worthwhile for the students is something we have to deal with as FTs, but there is a limit.


Agreed.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2314
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

f_c
We clearly have similar FT careers Smile
Best
NS
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
Away from WSE of which I have little experience, all the Oral English gigs I've had lacked resources and curriculum.
Also you don't get any downtime in class as the idea that Chinese students will discuss things in English in small breakout groups is a fallacy.
They will discuss the topic in Chinese and the best of them will volunteer to report the result.
Most situations I've been in called for the same lesson to be repeated 8 or 9 times in the same week. Ramp that up to 14 or 15 times and I would be gone in a month.
Sure the ability to deal with repetition and make each lesson worthwhile for the students is something we have to deal with as FTs, but there is a limit.


Im kinda guessing really as I havent actually worked for Wall Street, but based on my experience with similar oral classes (small groups of adults) I think Wall Street would be quite different.

My teaching style had to adapt to give students more time in breakout groups ... Id been used to giving 5 minutes and wrapping up, but I generally found that I needed to extend that. My students probably run with discussion questions / discussion tasks for up to 15 minutes in breakout groups or pairs. That will be almost all in English, and I just monitor. With a similar student profile and class dynamic I reckon WSE would be the same.

My adult training centre doesnt have a syllabus ... although they do have material. Planning can be a pain TBH ... especially at the start. Again, I think one of the selling points of WSE is that they do have a system and lesson plans.

As far as repeating lessons ... I wish I could repeat more often! Generally I can only repeat a lesson once in 30 teaching days! In more extreme examples I have had to wait up to 50 teaching days before I can repeat a lesson. Again, a guess ... but I would imagine (based on my adult training centre experience) that repeating lessons wouldnt be a problem. When I worked at a vocational college and middle school I always repeated lessons ... 8 identical lessons each week, but then wouldnt revist those lessons for the entire school year. In the training centre I may repeat a lesson 8 times, but the repetition would be over the course of the school year rather than a single week.

Again, Im guessing WSE would be similar ... but thats only based on the same class profile of small classes and adults
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

citadel wrote:
For some reason, working 25 hours in an overseas posts is tiresome, at least in my experience.

In the States, it is pretty standard to have 30 contact hours and five planning periods a week. It wasn't a problem nor was it tiresome. We had more than enough materials and a very structured curriculum ( under NCLB of course) to follow.


Does the difference in the teaching affect this? My memories of school and college was along the lines of 'open to page 26 and do the task'. Interaction patterns were limited, pair and group interaction was rare, with the teacher just leading the class through books or other materials 90% of the time. I dont remember many warmers, fillers or games...all tools and activities a TEFL'er might use.

When I teach a new lesson now I tend to find a 90 minute lesson requires at least 90 minutes of planning. That isnt material preparation ... but actual planning of warmers, interaction patterns etc etc etc. I wonder if 30 hours of decent TEFL teaching is actually a very different beast to 30 hours of teaching math in L1. Ive never taught in L1 so dont have first hand experience, but my memory of being taught seems very different to the reality of what I (try) to do now.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2314
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denim-Maniac wrote:
citadel wrote:
For some reason, working 25 hours in an overseas posts is tiresome, at least in my experience.

In the States, it is pretty standard to have 30 contact hours and five planning periods a week. It wasn't a problem nor was it tiresome. We had more than enough materials and a very structured curriculum ( under NCLB of course) to follow.


Does the difference in the teaching affect this? My memories of school and college was along the lines of 'open to page 26 and do the task'. Interaction patterns were limited, pair and group interaction was rare, with the teacher just leading the class through books or other materials 90% of the time. I dont remember many warmers, fillers or games...all tools and activities a TEFL'er might use.

When I teach a new lesson now I tend to find a 90 minute lesson requires at least 90 minutes of planning. That isnt material preparation ... but actual planning of warmers, interaction patterns etc etc etc. I wonder if 30 hours of decent TEFL teaching is actually a very different beast to 30 hours of teaching math in L1. Ive never taught in L1 so dont have first hand experience, but my memory of being taught seems very different to the reality of what I (try) to do now.


The initial planning can take as long as the lesson delivery but the payoff is that you do only one per week and then pretty well repeat it the following semester and academic year.
As I have my own resources of the class participation sort, it is only a matter of selecting which one for the week.
The first half of the 'lesson' is dragging the class through our set book* of dialogues. Boring as bat beep, but as I keep a record of how each student performs, it is a great basis for the 'classwork' part of the end of semester mark.
*The school is keenly interested that I use the book and that may be related to some payola deal of which like Sergeant Schultz 'I know nothing'.
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean the difference between teaching EFL in China and subject in the US/UK etc. Citadel mentioned that its harder to teach more hours abroad, 'tiresome' I think he said, and I wonder if thats because EFL takes a bit more in terms of planning**?

I often include timings in my planning, interaction patterns noting class number and dynamics and specific patterns of feedback and correction.
I have mental notes, if not physical ones, to remind me to only pair student Y in a certain group, and to closely monitor student X to ensure they dont railroad the other students and bully them etc.

I dont really remember my state school learning experience being as structured as EFL might be. Of course it was a long time ago, and my perspective was different. I do remember a biology class in which the teacher (Mr Shiels - I still remember the name) used to dictate to us from a book for an entire 50 minute period. He remain seated at his desk, and we'd furiously scribble everything down, rubbing our hands from writers cramp every 5 minutes.

If I only had to do things like that 'to teach', Id also find teaching 25 or 30 hours easy.

** by 'planning' I mean the actual structure and timing of the lesson. Understanding how it will work and how to teach it. Nothing to do with the material, printing, copying etc.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1092
Location: The West

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denim-Maniac wrote:
I mean the difference between teaching EFL in China and subject in the US/UK etc. Citadel mentioned that its harder to teach more hours abroad, 'tiresome' I think he said, and I wonder if thats because EFL takes a bit more in terms of planning**?

The dynamics of teaching are very different when you're a teacher teaching students who share the same language as you do (at home for example), as opposed to when you're teaching students who are being taught in what's their second, or possibly third, language.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2314
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Javelin of Radiance wrote:
Denim-Maniac wrote:
I mean the difference between teaching EFL in China and subject in the US/UK etc. Citadel mentioned that its harder to teach more hours abroad, 'tiresome' I think he said, and I wonder if thats because EFL takes a bit more in terms of planning**?

The dynamics of teaching are very different when you're a teacher teaching students who share the same language as you do (at home for example), as opposed to when you're teaching students who are being taught in what's their second, or possibly third, language.


Yeah the concept is called 'language of instruction'.
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DirtGuy



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP,

I'm in China and I've worked in TW before. Were it not for the fact that TW doesn't like older folks, I'd be in that country in a heartbeat. I fully understand your wanting to work there but start-up money is a problem. Here are some numbers from my current situation to chew on:

Uni job: 5K plus free everything except food, no taxes, EASY job
2nd job: 3,500 teaching brats, no taxes, the job sucks but it pays the bills
savings per month: 6,000

I, too, looked at WS but was turned off by the teaching hours as well as the fact that none of their teachers stayed for more than a year - bad sign. Glad I went the route I did and I plan to work in China next year.

DirtGuy
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 2522
Location: Chengdu, Sichuan, PRC

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
f_c
We clearly have similar FT careers Smile
Best
NS


Smile

Cool

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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