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China 1st timer questions
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blox



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: China 1st timer questions Reply with quote

1st timer 22year old male New Zealand, heading to a Guangdong public high school March 2013 with a degree but no tefl or teaching exp.
So from what I understand a z visa is out of the question with restrictions now.

1- Wont get a tourist visa with a 10 month return flight I guess so one way ticket or open ended return flight best option?

2- Recruiters invitational letter will state my reason is a cultural exchange to learn chinese and experience the culture, is this all good/common?

If anyone from Guangdong is willing to talk or anyone who can help with the visa process, would really be appreciated!
Message me your skype if so and I will get in contact!
Thanks
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You shouldn't do this.
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: China 1st timer questions Reply with quote

blox wrote:

So from what I understand a z visa is out of the question with restrictions now.

1- Wont get a tourist visa with a 10 month return flight I guess so one way ticket or open ended return flight best option?

2- Recruiters invitational letter will state my reason is a cultural exchange to learn chinese and experience the culture, is this all good/common?


johntpartee is right. These are all red flags. Check the boards and other postings here about the risk of working in China with employers who can't/won't provide the proper z-visa for work. Furthermore, I'd be wary of any "employer" who would label my work as a "cultural exchange" and would indicate it as such on the invitational letter. Hmm...

Keep looking and do consider ways to get some experience in your home country in the meantime, for instance, working on a 120-hour certificate and/or doing some volunteer ESL instruction for a literacy center.

Teaching English in China isn't going anywhere and it will be here for you; hence, there's no need to rush into things.

Good luck with it all.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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blox



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not that the employer cant afford the z visa. its that I dont qualify for one correct? I only have a degree, dosnt one need tefl cert and 2 years exp?

I understand its not the best thing to take on but it is what I have decided on.
I have from march2013-jan2014 to do fill in before teachers college.
I have been to China before so thought I would travel and gain experience in a place which I enjoyed.

From what I have seen travelling to china on a tourist visa and then teaching isnt that uncommon at all. Even at these forums its popular.

If the 'cultural exchange' is a bad idea haha. what else should I label the trip as? obviously cant be work related.
Would I be better of saying I am a personal friend to my recruiter and just use her details and leave out all company related details?


Last edited by blox on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going to do this I wouldn't bother booking a return ticket as the PSB will no doubt put you on the first available flight after you've been arrested and spent some time in a cell while they process your fine and get the money for that and the flight ticket either from you or your relatives back home.

Now, before others jump in, this might not happen, but then again it might. You will be working illegally, and the Guangdong government is one of the strictest when it comes to enforcing employment law.

Then there's the fact that your going to teach in a public middle or senior school. I've done that, it's not pleasant. You are likely to be faced with 50 to 60, or more, students who speak very little English and don't particularly want to learn any more. There will be no room in the class to move around in or play games or do activities in. If you are very lucky you might have a Chinese teacher to assist and keep order. It's more likely is that the teacher will either not be there, or if they are they will use the time to mark papers and play with their phone, leaving you to control the students. It sucks. That's probably the reason the recruiter has to find unqualified people who are willing, for some bizarre reason, to come and do it illegally. People who have a choice choose to go elsewhere.

Also I know of at least two recruitment agencies in Guangzhou who have a reputation of farming teachers out to various schools, which means the teachers have to spend the whole day travelling from school to school while only getting paid for the teaching hours. Of course they can complain or quit, but if they're working illegally on tourist visas it severely restricts their option.

Don't do it. You have the degree, so get a TEFL certificate as fat_chris suggests. It's quick and easy to do online, though it won't really teach you much or qualify you to teach. The experience is often optional when it comes to getting the Z visa, so there are jobs out there you could get which would provide you with the proper, legal documents you need to work safely and securely.
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blox



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh k I didnt realize some working visas were possible without exp.
I forgot to mention my recruiter did say they would sort out my papers on arrival but that is obviously sketchy.
And yea I am looking into a cheap fast tefl cert just to have the bit of paper like you say.

Im not looking for max salary or anything in particular.
Basically a little hours middle/secondary gig with free accommodation and some airfare if possible.
I'm basically open to anything/anywhere.

What would be your recommendations may I ask?
Are there any particular provinces that are less strict or even would be legal for just a degree?
Any particular programs or recruiters that would suit me maybe?
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dean_a_jones



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly if you look for less popular provinces (such as Hubei, Henan etc.) then, even without the two years experience and TEFL certificate, you might be able to wrangle a job. What really works against you is age (as being 22 pretty much indicates no experience). Having said that, I have worked with a few 22 year olds, right out of university, non-teaching majors, non-TEFL certified and they arrived on proper Z visas, converted into residency permits as is proper.

You should be insisting on getting this. If the recruiter is going to lie about anything, it should be about your experience etc. (i.e. you did some English language teaching during a summer break) in order to get you the proper working papers, as once you have these it doesn't matter. Lying to get the wrong visa to get in here to work illegally means the lie is continuous, which does matter and is risky.

As others have said, the situation you are suggesting will make you vulnerable to the whims of the recruiter/school, and many will treat you like a starving farmer treats his only plowhorse. Of course you can walk away at any point, as you are not tied to the school. If this option is going to have any safety, it will mean you need to have a pretty decent chunk of cash to keep you going while you look for something better (maybe 10 - 15,000RMB). Remember this will need to cover hotels/rent, food, travel etc., and even if you get another job after a week or two, you will still probably have to wait 4 - 6 weeks for the first paycheck.

So if you really are open to anything, anywhere, I would be looking for schools that will get you the proper working papers, as this carries less risk and is much more likely to land you with a job you can tolerate (if not love). As I said, given your experience and current credentials, these are not likely to be in the biggest cities on the East coast.

Edited to add: The other thing you now have working against you is the time, as most schools will be going on their spring festival break at the end of this week if they are not already on them--spring festival proper this year starts around 9 Feb, and so the window of getting your paperwork before this is pretty narrow now--perhaps one of the reasons why your recruiter will tell you that you should come over on a tourst visa and they will convert (of course they will tell you anything they think you want to hear, as you getting here means them getting paid). Some schools might actually mean this promise, although that might mean you have to pay yourself for a trip to HK to do it--not such a problem if you are in Guangdong, but an expensive proposal from more distant provinces. Just a few extra thoughts.
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MisterButtkins



Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get a proper Z-visa in working in Heilongjiang, Jilin, or Liaoning. I have worked in Jilin and Liaoning and, for probably half of my coworkers, it was their first teaching job. Don't expect a big salary, though.
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