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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| I will never understand these people who think that we are supposed to get paid more just because the boss obviously makes a lot of money. |
Certainly not under socialism with Chinese characteristics...
I think this is the same attitude of a culture of entitlement much like the opinions of those who feel welfare is a right as opposed to a safety net. |
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milkweedma
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:08 am Post subject: |
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The right to a decent standard of living should be a right in all western countries whether that be by work or welfare because the globalised neo-liberal system that dictates the parametres of life for us all is inherently unegalitarian.
The need for welfare is a by product of neo-liberalism and the unemployment it generates is a crime to begin with, so blaming the individual for a system that creates misery to begin with is a convenient scapegoat that has convinced many people like yourselves. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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The right to a decent standard of living should be a right in all western countries whether that be by work or welfare because the globalised neo-liberal system that dictates the parametres of life for us all is inherently unegalitarian.
The need for welfare is a by product of neo-liberalism and the unemployment it generates is a crime to begin with, so blaming the individual for a system that creates misery to begin with is a convenient scapegoat that has convinced many people like yourselves. |
The system doesn't make people hold their hand out. You have a right to what ever you work for and nothing else. A culture of entitlement is not a product of neo-liberalism and anyway the term neo-liberal would be defined differently according to what decade it was uttered. However if you really think that doing away with p[rice controls, market deregulation and free trade are the problems causing freeloaders or a culture that produces FT's that expect to be rewarded with paychecks that are comparable to the earnings their boss enjoys, I would invite you to have a more detailed posting to how that works. Neo-babble would be a good term to start flinging about Dave's. |
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milkweedma
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:45 am Post subject: |
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The globalised neo-liberal system that controls the distribution of wealth right around the world now via FTA's are enforced by the WTO makes people hold their hand out if they can't feed their kids or themselves because jobs are continuing to rush offshore to low wage, low standard of living economies. Peoples individual choice or power is diminished when you don't have equial power in an employment relationship and have to rely on welfare to stay alive.
Neo-liberalism as a definition has only moved from being constrained within national borders into being unleashed globally through the institutions of the WTO, WB and the IMF.
As for teachers expecting a bigger salary because the boss is making more then if that scenario is playing out, renegotiating the contract when the first one ends would seem a rational move. Chinese bosses however are notorious for employing the cheapest teachers available regardless of quality. |
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NewToTown
Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:24 pm Post subject: Really / Are those jobs out there? |
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| NoBillyNO wrote: |
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1. if ESL teachers in China don't get paid at least 2,000 usd per month they are getting ripped off.
2. more than 79% of all ESL teachers in China are unhappy because they don't get paid enough.
3. Chinese teachers make much more than recruiters or the internet would have us think.
4. Recruiters take as much as 40% of our salary. |
Number one is a living wage in China and even then this may be consider to little, as to getting ripped off, it is an individual who calculates his self worth.
Number two likely can be applied to occupations across the board.
Number three is kind of ridiculous. Recruiters are middle men and who believes the middle man.
Number four would be on a case to case basis, much like property agents, the % is in the negotiations. I recently moved and negotiated a two year lease at 300rmb lower than advertised and getting a 40% reduction in the agents fee. It is all up to the turn of the deal. |
Really? A "living" wage in CHINA is 12,500RMB? Pretty sure that is is totally possible to live a pretty "good" life for like 5,500 - meaning 3,000 for rent and the other for food, going out on weekends, other bills and even a few fun things - in Beijing no problem. . . as far as a "living" wage I am pretty sure my assistants are "living" on 1,000 a month + housing and they all seem to go shopping quite a bit . . . just saying.
But seriously I just read an article saying if you don't get 250 an hour you are getting screwed - this seems pretty high. Are there really so many (FT) jobs out there paying this?
Sure I'm new but I work at a school with two other teachers who have both been here over 2 years and they seem pretty happy. I get paid less than them because I have a sketchy placement company but I enjoy their reliable dodgy visas so it's a trade of eh?
What are the strategies for finding these baller jobs and is it worth chasing? |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| 250 per hour? We all wish. I was charging 200 for privates in 2008. I'm getting ready to raise it to 250, but 250 for a full time school position? Highly doubtful. |
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just another laowai
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Really / Are those jobs out there? |
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| NewToTown wrote: |
| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| Quote: |
1. if ESL teachers in China don't get paid at least 2,000 usd per month they are getting ripped off.
2. more than 79% of all ESL teachers in China are unhappy because they don't get paid enough.
3. Chinese teachers make much more than recruiters or the internet would have us think.
4. Recruiters take as much as 40% of our salary. |
Number one is a living wage in China and even then this may be consider to little, as to getting ripped off, it is an individual who calculates his self worth.
Number two likely can be applied to occupations across the board.
Number three is kind of ridiculous. Recruiters are middle men and who believes the middle man.
Number four would be on a case to case basis, much like property agents, the % is in the negotiations. I recently moved and negotiated a two year lease at 300rmb lower than advertised and getting a 40% reduction in the agents fee. It is all up to the turn of the deal. |
Really? A "living" wage in CHINA is 12,500RMB? Pretty sure that is is totally possible to live a pretty "good" life for like 5,500 - meaning 3,000 for rent and the other for food, going out on weekends, other bills and even a few fun things - in Beijing no problem. . . as far as a "living" wage I am pretty sure my assistants are "living" on 1,000 a month + housing and they all seem to go shopping quite a bit . . . just saying.
But seriously I just read an article saying if you don't get 250 an hour you are getting screwed - this seems pretty high. Are there really so many (FT) jobs out there paying this?
Sure I'm new but I work at a school with two other teachers who have both been here over 2 years and they seem pretty happy. I get paid less than them because I have a sketchy placement company but I enjoy their reliable dodgy visas so it's a trade of eh?
What are the strategies for finding these baller jobs and is it worth chasing? |
You're forgetting about the $1000+ a month they are spending to pay back student loans they amassed for the worthless degrees that resulted in them teaching english in china to begin with. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Really / Are those jobs out there? |
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| just another laowai wrote: |
| You're forgetting about the $1000+ a month they are spending to pay back student loans they amassed for the worthless degrees that resulted in them teaching english in china to begin with. |
Oh!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| You're forgetting about the $1000+ a month they are spending to pay back student loans they amassed for the worthless degrees that resulted in them teaching english in china to begin with. |
It would seem that you have one of those 'useless' degrees or you wouldn't have much reason to post on this forum. Or you're working illegally. |
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just another laowai
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| MisterButtkins wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You're forgetting about the $1000+ a month they are spending to pay back student loans they amassed for the worthless degrees that resulted in them teaching english in china to begin with. |
It would seem that you have one of those 'useless' degrees or you wouldn't have much reason to post on this forum. Or you're working illegally. |
Ohhh, defensive over our art history degree are we? I just have late night meetings and am bored/out of other things to kill the time. |
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ecubyrd
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| johntpartee wrote: |
| 250 per hour? We all wish. I was charging 200 for privates in 2008. I'm getting ready to raise it to 250, but 250 for a full time school position? Highly doubtful. |
250 per hour would be pretty baller if that was how much one was making for any and all hours required of the ft job (ie...classes, prep, office hours, etc). This got me wondering about average ft pay at my school. I just did the math and it breaks down this way hourly:
*each 40min class taught- 330rmb
or
*each 60min in an 8 hr day (190 days)- 182rmb
or
*each 60min in an 8hr day over the course of the year with all holidays/vacay included (261 days)- 133rmb
So, in conclusion, yeah, I don't think there are too many ft teaching jobs out there that pay 250rmb per hour with all things considered. |
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chica88
Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:19 am Post subject: Re: Really / Are those jobs out there? |
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| NewToTown wrote: |
| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| Quote: |
1. if ESL teachers in China don't get paid at least 2,000 usd per month they are getting ripped off.
2. more than 79% of all ESL teachers in China are unhappy because they don't get paid enough.
3. Chinese teachers make much more than recruiters or the internet would have us think.
4. Recruiters take as much as 40% of our salary. |
Number one is a living wage in China and even then this may be consider to little, as to getting ripped off, it is an individual who calculates his self worth.
Number two likely can be applied to occupations across the board.
Number three is kind of ridiculous. Recruiters are middle men and who believes the middle man.
Number four would be on a case to case basis, much like property agents, the % is in the negotiations. I recently moved and negotiated a two year lease at 300rmb lower than advertised and getting a 40% reduction in the agents fee. It is all up to the turn of the deal. |
Really? A "living" wage in CHINA is 12,500RMB? Pretty sure that is is totally possible to live a pretty "good" life for like 5,500 - meaning 3,000 for rent and the other for food, going out on weekends, other bills and even a few fun things - in Beijing no problem. . . as far as a "living" wage I am pretty sure my assistants are "living" on 1,000 a month + housing and they all seem to go shopping quite a bit . . . just saying.
But seriously I just read an article saying if you don't get 250 an hour you are getting screwed - this seems pretty high. Are there really so many (FT) jobs out there paying this?
Sure I'm new but I work at a school with two other teachers who have both been here over 2 years and they seem pretty happy. I get paid less than them because I have a sketchy placement company but I enjoy their reliable dodgy visas so it's a trade of eh?
What are the strategies for finding these baller jobs and is it worth chasing? |
I to would be curious to know what strategies are for finding great full time teaching jobs in China.
More than a few people have told me one should not use recruiting agencies because there stands the chance of more money being made by the teacher.
That leaves you hitting up schools while its impossible to know if they are hiring or not.
Just speaking for myself I have had a problem locating schools in China on the internet.
And when I do find schools many times the school site is in Chinese and I cant read it.
Then I've also run into not understanding where to send my information to exactly if the site does not have a specific section for employment or hr.
And I will throw out there that even the site for Helen Group that people have said has all the jobs listed on their site has been not so easy.
I tried to look up the schools on line, two schools I could not even find and 3 schools were completely in Chinese.
I do not like the thought at all about using recruiting agencies.
But, when constantly running into things that make the process come to a complete stop its difficult to know what to do.
Not to mention all recruiters I have come across have stating the pay offered is final.
So, the negotiation point is sort of lost at that point unless individuals are ready to walk away.
So, ya if someone has strategies I would love to know what they are. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:12 am Post subject: |
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define full-time. would that be 25 hours at a mill, or 16 at a university?
anyway, is 200-250 per hour that extreme? let's do the math. here at my
college, ft's teach 12 hours per week. fall semester has 20 weeks, minus
the first three weeks of no teachin' due to military training, plus a week
off for national day, and other miscellaneous holidays. we'll go with 16
weeks of class. spring semester is a full 20 weeks, minus about a week
of holidays. so we have about 35 weeks of class.........420 'hours' of
teaching (one hour = 45 minutes). [i shall exclude lesson planning in the
calculations.......i've got enough existing lesson plans that i can use/modify,
so that i need only about 15 minutes prep per hour. i'll also exclude
grading and reporting, which would add about an hour per week if spread
over an entire semester.]
pay package includes 12 months salary (summer paid if renewing contract),
10K flight allowance (not reimbursement, no receipts required), 2BR furnished
apartment (82 square meter), utilities, internet, 1600 allowance to buy
expat insurance. for roundness of numbers, let's say the apartment rent
is worth 1250/month, utilities and interwebs worth 250/month.
if i wanted to break down my compensation by teachin' time, i'd calculate
that i'm being paid a bit over 225 rmb/hour. |
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ecubyrd
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
define full-time. would that be 25 hours at a mill, or 16 at a university?
anyway, is 200-250 per hour that extreme? let's do the math. here at my
college, ft's teach 12 hours per week. fall semester has 20 weeks, minus
the first three weeks of no teachin' due to military training, plus a week
off for national day, and other miscellaneous holidays. we'll go with 16
weeks of class. spring semester is a full 20 weeks, minus about a week
of holidays. so we have about 35 weeks of class.........420 'hours' of
teaching (one hour = 45 minutes). [i shall exclude lesson planning in the
calculations.......i've got enough existing lesson plans that i can use/modify,
so that i need only about 15 minutes prep per hour. i'll also exclude
grading and reporting, which would add about an hour per week if spread
over an entire semester.]
pay package includes 12 months salary (summer paid if renewing contract),
10K flight allowance (not reimbursement, no receipts required), 2BR furnished
apartment (82 square meter), utilities, internet, 1600 allowance to buy
expat insurance. for roundness of numbers, let's say the apartment rent
is worth 1250/month, utilities and interwebs worth 250/month.
if i wanted to break down my compensation by teachin' time, i'd calculate
that i'm being paid a bit over 225 rmb/hour. |
Yeah, I get it. Full time for me is roughly 40 hours a week on site for 37 weeks per year. 250 surely isn't extreme. There are so many variables to calculating per hour pay. In my assessment before I just did a simple salary breakdown and didn't include the yearly bonus, extra pay for after-school classes (which are done during normal school hours), insurance, etc...Had I done that the rate would go up considerably. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Peoples individual choice or power is diminished when you don't have equial power in an employment relationship and have to rely on welfare to stay alive. |
No one will ever have equal footing with a boss, even when the employees own the company. Some people will always have their hand out and it is up to the taxpayers to decide if they want to shell out the greenbacks.
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| I to would be curious to know what strategies are for finding great full time teaching jobs in China. |
Don't do your job search in China, look else where for china postings.
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| That leaves you hitting up schools while its impossible to know if they are hiring or not. |
The cold call (and a Chinese speaker) is your friend.
| Quote: |
| Really? A "living" wage in CHINA is 12,500RMB? Pretty sure that is is totally possible to live a pretty "good" life for like 5,500 - meaning 3,000 for rent and the other for food, going out on weekends, other bills and even a few fun things - in Beijing no problem. . . as far as a "living" wage I am pretty sure my assistants are "living" on 1,000 a month + housing and they all seem to go shopping quite a bit . . . just saying. |
Perhaps I was speaking from my perspective but then again this would be obvious since i posted the comment. I reckon we all set our own standards and as is evident from your post that mine is higher than yours. God bless you for undervaluing your self worth however, is it really undervalued? I would venture that if working on a monthly salary, 12,5 would fall a little short.
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| There are so many variables to calculating per hour pay. |
Currency is the only scale! Negotiate for money. Contract for hours and job description. Set your standards with work performance (this will be defined by your employer and not some abstract self indulged illusion of duty. |
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