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[dynow]

ecocks is right on.

delphian-domine wrote:

[Master Shake]

[ecocks]

On the off-chance this conversation will remain rational and avoid hyperbole and histrionics, I'll stay in with the discussion.

Some facts:

Owning firearms is an acknowledged (not granted) right under our Constitution. Carry is increasingly being viewed as a permit-based privilege although this is arguable constitutionally since "bear arms" is specifically mentioned but interpreted differently by various states and federal court jurisdictions. That said, four states (see below) have NO RESTRICTION on permits except for having full citizen rights.

The majority of states require some form of a training component for obtaining the permit. Unfortunately, there is no national standard so this can be as little as 2-3 hours of sitting in a classroom learning the laws as they apply to permit holders OR it can be 8+ hours of combined classroom lecture on law, tactics and safety, coupled with active range time where you shoot 200-300 rounds for score and demonstrate proficiency on silhouette targets. Four states have no requirements at all and Illinois does not issue or allow CCW permits.

Many, but again not all, states use military service as a consideration. Specifically, some states accept military service as proof of competence with a firearm, others use your type of discharge as a factor for consideration. So, a Bad Conduct Discharge or a Medical Discharge for reasons of mental instability will result in elimination. This is not true in all states even if the state accepts the military service as allowed training. In all states, convicted felons who have lost their citizen rights must petition to get them reinstated. There may be one exception to this (NC?) based on a case a year or so ago.

Most states also will not issue if the applicant has domestic violence charges (not adjudications mind you, charges). Since these may or may not be grounded in fact, many feel it is an inappropriate lockout factor. It is not uncommon for a spouse to charge domestic violence as a retaliatory or harassment tactic.

You should also understand that their are two very important distinctions when it comes to state laws.

In many states (the majority at 37) the law states that Sheriffs and Police SHALL ISSUE the permit unless one of the restriction conditions is met. In the others (8 of them) the law says they MAY issues IF none of the factors applies.

The SHALL ISSUE states basically require the local authority to take the application, verify that the individual has no police, mental, military elimination factors and then issue the permit.

The MAY ISSUE states leave a local authority or jurisdiction the option of requiring additional criteria. A county may adopt a law requiring that an applicant write an essay stating why they feel the need for a permit or that the Sheriff's Department provide the appropriate training program which must be attended. Also, the Sheriff may decide to not award you the permit "just because".

Note: MOST gun-owners feel that the MAY ISSUE laws are a direct violation of the 2nd Amendment's "shall not be infringed" phrasing.

Re: Training - Some states accept other states permits, some do not. Even then acceptance of the permit may be based upon the type of training programs the state required. My state, Idaho, accepts and honors ALL other states' permits. New York, California and Illinois (our three most restrictive states) do not accept as readily.

Four of our states, Alaska, Vermont, Wyoming and Arizona, do not require ANY permit for carrying openly or concealed.

Other questions that most skip over are: whether signs prohibiting guns are legal - varies by state; keeping a firearm in a parked or moving vehicle - lots of differences; carrying in airports - some states banned it, some didn't; magazine capacity - some states limit to 7, 10 or 15 rounds for handguns; distinguishing between handguns and long guns - most states don't but this may change a bit this year.

Hope that helps with your understanding.

Some opinion:

As for the not being comfortable......

For those who are uncomfortable around firearms, go somewhere else. There are lots of things in the world that various people don't like. I hate spiders so I don't vacation in jungle areas. The idiot in the next car playing his stereo with maz bass annoys the hell outta me so I put the windows up and speed up or slow down. That kid walking down the street with his pants below his hips is probably advertising for a love match but I just move on.

I have a couple of friends who dislike firearms. I don't visit their homes and they may or may not visit mine according to how upset they claim to be. I wear a gun 99% of the time in the US and know dozens of others who do as well. Only one acquaintance has ever gone off the reservation and begun shooting up the neighborhood. Thankfully, he didn't hit anyone.

Now someone will want to ask, "Is your right to carry a gun worth the chance that one of those idiots will kill a child or innocent neighbor"

My answer is yes, get over it and move on. It is a right of citizenship and is part of the checks and balances of our governmental system. As far as efficiency, it's no different than the girl I knew in high school who ran a red light and killed one of our other classmates or the guy who got drunk and killed 3 of the four people in his car (himself included). I don't think banning cars is the answer to highway deaths anymore than banning guns will stop murder and physical mayhem.

[dynow]

"In Poland, I can be pretty sure the drunk guy next to me at the bar isn't packing heat."

it's worth adding to this that carrying a gun in a bar is illegal in most (maybe all?) right to carry states.

[ecocks]

[the_roads_of_poland]

[oipivo]

"I've never felt unsafe in the US."

I'm from Flint, Michigan, so my experience abroad is probably quite different than yours I would imagine.

[wojbrian]

I worked out of Flint and live in the Detroit burbs.

Where I live is very safe but I bet if I dropped you in the D You would prefer to be in Poland.

I think if your not an idiot it would be hard to get into trouble there. I never felt unsafe when I lived there.

[ecocks]

[iknowwhatiamtalkingabout]

"It is a right of citizenship and is part of the checks and balances of our governmental system."

I don't understand this. Are you saying you think you need a gun to protect yourself from your government?

[ecocks]

[iknowwhatiamtalkingabout]

[sparks]

[ecocks]

[iknowwhatiamtalkingabout]