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Best Explanation About Salaries 4 Foreign Teachers in China
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Lancy Bloom



Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 112
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burke. You are a brave man. This 90 day scam has hit me three times in the last two years. And to be honest in my 9 years of working in China, I never had a contract honored. Everything from , You came to China via Korea so we will only pay you a ticket to Korea. My last job I got ,from out of the blue that I was having bad thoughts about China ( I never say anything about China that is in the least bit negative). I was charged 20 rmb a day for a light that was turned on at night by a janitor in the school. I have seen so many unitamized bills where I wasn't allowed any verification , from every place I worked.
If you want to know how China works read about all the dead pigs in the rivers. They are still looking for the big lie to tell the people. Read about the baby milk that killed their own. Read about the bogus drugs being sold by pharmacies.
You see in China everyone is cheating so noone wants to accuse another person of anything because the authorities will just turn on them. It you hold your ground and demand a contract honored you will be blackballed.
Favorite trick is to say everything will be settled in the end. They ask you to leave your apartment and then you will be paid.
It is a closed system and unless you are a member of the Communist Party of China , You will lose and you will pay.
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Burke



Joined: 22 Nov 2012
Posts: 42
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denim-Maniac wrote:
Burke wrote:

I visited this website and it is compiled from teachers who obviously used agents so these figures are not the real salaries paid by the schools but what the teachers were paid.


And you know this how? Or is this another ridiculous assertion?

I entered my details on that site about two years ago when someone posted a link to it on this forum. I have never used an agent or recruiter.



I went to this site http://www.foreignteacherpay.com/china-survey/ and it is clearly asking the teachers what they make, but not one question on the survey asks "How did you find your job?" or "How much is your agent collecting from your gross salary?'

And if you go visit some ESL message boards where schools advertise directly for teachers you will see the HUGE disparity between their salaries and what the agents are posting - at least 5,000 per month difference and in some cases as much as 10,000 rmb. I would not be surprised if that survey was set up by an agent who deliberately avoided the subject of agent fees. Did you read the China ESL contract?
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Burke



Joined: 22 Nov 2012
Posts: 42
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy is right on the money. Every one of us know at least one teaching colleague that was burned by either a school or an agent in China. My roommate got screwed out of 15,000 rmb and the *beep* want him to pay 10,000 for a release letter too! Maybe it didn't happen to you so you are lucky (knock on wood) Agents are all bloodsuckers who make more money from the teachers hours than the teachers in many cases. Somewhere there is post from a teacher name "Curt" who told how his identity was stolen and how his accounts were frozen because of the fraud investigation and he could not make his student loan payments and how he was forced to default on his student loans - all because he sent some agent at a 163.com email a copy of his passport, visa, and bank account info (supposedly where to have his refund from an invitation letter sent) Check this out when you have time: http://www.zimbio.com/Exposing+Scams/articles/QXkaFYKZ090/More+Expats+China+Now+Targeted+ID+Theft+20
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Lancy - I first entered China in 2006. I've had 5 contracts so far and all have been honoured to the letter. This includes the end-of-contract flight money. In all honesty, the person who hasn't always lived up to the contract(s) has been me. I over-claimed on one flight ticket and cut one contract short for personal reasons.

@Burke - Once again your logic and reasoning is faulty. You state the website 'is compiled from teachers who obviously use agents and so figures used are not the real salaries.' You then say because they dont ask a question about recruiters, it must be assumed that all respondants have used them. Your logic Sir, is as faulty as Lancy Bloom's English is. (and Lancy is very rarely 'on the money')

As I have told you, I completed that survey myself around 2 years ago and have never used an agent or recruiter.

I know, I know, its because I am a Chinese secret agent. A 5-mao employee, a recruiter of gullible newbies. But a casual glance through our posting history would show that I rarely, if ever, can be seen posting links to other websites, forums and sources. I have no agenda you see. Yet almost every one of your posts is full of links to other websites, including the wonderful Chinese foreign teachers union blog.

A casual and cursory glance through the posts on this very board would show that the majority of us find our jobs without recruiters, get paid in full and on time, and enjoy good relationships with our employers. All of the unsubstantiated nonsense you (and others) post is simply scaremongering and helps no-one really.
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doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 560
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burke wrote:
Every one of us know at least one teaching colleague that was burned by either a school or an agent in China.


No, some of us, I for one, have never met anyone who was burned by either a school or an agent. I'm not denying it happens, but sweeping generalisations like this are just a sad attempt to make your angry and bitter comments seem like they have some weight.
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5682
Location: South China, by the sea.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who gets hit with the same scam repeatedly and finds after nine years that they've never had an employer honour a contract probably shouldn't have left home to begin with.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3220
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
This 90 day scam has hit me three times in the last two years.


fool me once, shame on you.
fool me twice, shame on me.
fool me thrice, i'm a bloomin' onion. Rolling Eyes
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Lancy Bloom



Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 112
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I began teaching Engish 20 years ago. I never left China because I have a Chinese wife and children. Not easy to have them in my country because we don't have money.
So I expect insults for telling the truth. You want me to leave because I am bad for your business.
Everyone here so happy with how things are going for them in China. Maybe it is time to post the old( how to take moeny back home?) posting.
Working in China is like getting raped and then going to the police to be raped again. Harmonius society where everyone regards honesty as a weakness.
So people don't post on their jobs in China because e-mails are read by employers. Only a fools would print anything bad. I am not in China and will continue to post the truth.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3220
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
I never left China....


Lancy Bloom wrote:
I am not in China ....



Laughing
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Lancy Bloom



Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 112
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Choutofu I can smell you. I love the smell . I am in Hong Kong. Explain it for us? Why visa runs here when it is part of China?
So I want to read more testimonials of happy teachers. I want to hear about people who got good jobs without using recruiters. I want to hear about bonus money being paid. Gives us testimonials please
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vikeologist



Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The blunt fact is that teachers are going to have a better experience in China if they are

-Native speakers
-Good at teaching
-Have a degree
-Have a recognised teaching qualification
-Have a good employment track record
-Have enough savings to rescue them from a bad situation
-Are mentally stable
-Have a good level of English
-Have experience of teaching English

Judging from your posts, not many of these things apply to you. Again I will tell you that this isn't a personal attack on you. Perhaps you've got yourself into a situation where staying in China is the best of a range of bad options. It sounds as though your time in China has been a never-ending car crash, and you have my sympathy.

I wish you could get help from this forum, but unfortunately I think that if you open up, people will attack you.

However, can you really not accept that some of the problems you've described may be your fault?

My understanding is that you've worked illegally and used recruiters. Perhaps you've broken contracts.

You seem to say a lot that most of the foreign teachers you've met have also had bad experiences. You desperately need to change the circles you mix in.

If I may say one harsh thing to you; comments about rape and slavery are not going to encourage anybody to take you seriously. You're just making yourself into an easy target of ridicule.
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Lancy Bloom



Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 112
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

judging by your post vikeologist you don't work as an English teacher. English teachers don't have the time to make the postings you do. I say you sit in an office of a recruiting company and write nice letters to potential teachers. Good teachers prep three hours for a one hour class. Where do you get all the time. You say you check out all the post of people?
We are now in the state where I become insulting and then the moderator closes the site down.
It would be nice to have a lists of good qualified teachers who have been chased off this board over the years. Forbidden because good teachers are a threat to the business of recruitment agencies. They need a tournover of teachers. They need to think that you don't need to have qualifications or know anything. Anybody can come to China and get a job. You need suckers with deep pockets.
Teachers will have a good experience in China if they have never taught English and have lots of money to spend.
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Ariadne



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy, you may speak for yourself, but you may NOT speak for me!

I have worked in China for a long time. I have worked for three universities. I have never used a recruiter. I have never been scammed or mistreated by an employer. I have always received my airfare upon completion of the yearly contract, and my current school even pays half of it before Spring Festival. I have always worked legally at schools authorized to hire FTs.

I'm sorry that horrible things happened to you but just because you've had a rotten time in China does not mean that horrible things happen to all or most other teachers.

Get a grip for goodness sake! Your experiences are just that... yours. Not ours.

.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3220
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lancy Bloom wrote:
It would be nice to have a lists of good qualified teachers who have been chased off this board over the years. Forbidden because good teachers are a threat to the business of recruitment agencies.


you confound me, lancy bloom. you claim that excellent teachers, such as
yourserf, are banned from the board apparently for speaking the truth.
the truth that recruiters are, umm, less than honest?

if you peruse the postings, you may find that the general consensus here
is that you should contact the schools directly. "avoid recruiters" is the
most common advice.

well, that and "don't come if you're desperate for cash," and "always
have a fallback plan." oh, yeah, i almost forgot...."don't come on
a tourist visa."

so lancy, do you actually read these posts? you accuse the vikeologist
dude of being a recruiter:

Lancy Bloom wrote:
judging by your post vikeologist you don't work as an English teacher......I say you sit in an office of a recruiting company and write nice letters to potential teachers.....


yet it was that same evildoer who wrote (in this very thread no less!):

vikeologist wrote:
If you don't want to be scammed in China

a) Never, ever, ever use agents.
b) Only come here on a legitamate Z visa
c) Get information from current teachers at the school you'll be working at.
...............




Rolling Eyes
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mcloo7



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 404
Location: Hangzhou

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

choudoufu wrote:
Lancy Bloom wrote:
This 90 day scam has hit me three times in the last two years.


fool me once, shame on you.
fool me twice, shame on me.
fool me thrice, i'm a bloomin' onion. Rolling Eyes



"There's a saying in Tenesee--I know it's in Texas, probably in Tenesee. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.... can't get fooled again."
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