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DD3
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:05 am Post subject: Comparing uni job offers - advice for the ladies! |
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A few months back I wrote a post asking about the best uni job for women in Saudi. After not getting any useful replies, I sent out my CV to every uni I could find in the country that hires women - about 10. I then went through the process of being interviewed and compared the offers I was given. Figured I would post the results for anyone who is interested. I have an MA in TEFL + 8 years of experience.
Khalifa Uni & Dar Al-Hekma Uni - no reply to my application
King Khalid/Abha Uni - contacted me initially, then after I went through the annoying process of filling out loads of paperwork, blew me off with no explanation.
Effat Uni - wrote me after 3 mos asking for an interview the next day. When I responded by saying that I hadn't received their email in enough time to plan the interview, I never heard back from them.
Swan Institute - saw their ad hiring for a uni on TEFL.com. They responded to my application asking for email references, which I gave them. Never heard back again and I know my references are solid.
ELI Abdulaziz Uni - had a 10 min basic interview with a nice British man. He was unable to give me any clear information in regard to housing for women, which the uni does not provide. Mentioned that the men's and women's sections of the uni were quite separate. Wondered why he was interviewing me then. They sent me an offer a week later:
salary 13,700
transport 500
housing allowance 17,000
60 days leave
Seems to me they feel they can offer a lower salary than other places since they know most prefer to live in Jeddah and the teaching load is 18 hours.
PNU through Teach Away - had a 40 minute, quite in-depth and intelligently thought out interview with them. Made me an offer about 3 weeks later:
salary + trasport 15,000
housing included
60 days leave
Prince Sultan - they scheduled an interview with me a month in advance and then didn't sign onto Skype when it was scheduled. They wrote me and we rescheduled but this time I totally forgot about it. Oh well.
King Saud bin Abdulaziz University for Health Sciences (KSAU-HS) through MD Talent Search - 25 minute, professional interview. Made me an offer a week later:
14,600
housing and transport free
60 days leave
Both PNU and King Saud were very professional. Initially I took the job at King Saud (PNU had wanted me to start right away in the spring) but I then found a better job in another country (thank god!). When I wrote to King Saud telling them I had to cancel my application they were very kind about it, even asking if I wanted to postpone my start date instead.
Overall I was a bit surprised by the salaries in Saudi; I thought they would be about $1000 higher considering what a difficult culture it is to live in. For me, as a single woman, I'm not convinced that it's worth it. Luckily I found a more lucrative job elsewhere in the Gulf - which was not easy. Got to admit I had thought an MA from a good school would be my golden ticket to great uni jobs all over the world and this is certainly not the case - not right away anyway! |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:26 am Post subject: |
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From what I have seen the past few years, there are better salaries for women in the UAE and Qatar. Saudi hasn't been the top payer for women for a long time - if it ever was. The big bucks in Saudi are male only jobs.
VS |
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Sheik Yerbuti
Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 105
Location: the promised land
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:29 am Post subject: |
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You are organized at least. You need to be prepared to
interview anytime and at a moments notice. Hiring decisions here
happen slowly and then immediately. If you don't have Saudi
or ME experience, the recruiter/ school will read delay on your part,
or asking a bunch of front-loaded questions about money, vacation,
personal issues, as a sign of reluctance and indecision, or outright greed. There is mucho bashing on this board of the folks who place people in jobs here in KSA, but I put half the blame on mercenary job-seekers who have placed too much stock in the feedback they read on line. Follow your own professional values and proceed in good faith.
May is a bit early in the cycle too. The mad Saudi rush doesn't fully commence til July. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Comparing uni job offers - advice for the ladies! |
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| DD3 wrote: |
| Overall I was a bit surprised by the salaries in Saudi; I thought they would be about $1000 higher considering what a difficult culture it is to live in. |
So, based on your thread's subject line, your advice is...what? Hold out for an offer that includes a generous "cultural difficulty" allowance? 
Seriously, your experience fits a lot of job-hunting scenarios regardless of the profession---salaries and bennies can vary greatly. What you believe you're worth may not always jive with what employers want to pay, which is why I always say you need to apply to see what you'd get. In terms of the Kingdom, those of us formerly or currently employed here have been saying salaries have declined over the years; this isn't new news. Plus, years of experience are often capped. Case in point, I'm paid more than the highest salary you quoted in your post, yet, I don't have half your number of years of experience. Go figure.
You did some comparison shopping and ended up going to the highest bidder in another country, which is what many other job-seekers would do. But I agree with VS. Men have more opportunities to make big money in the Kingdom than women do. It is what it is.
Anyway, I sincerely wish you few cultural difficulties in your new job.  |
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DD3
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:50 am Post subject: |
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I definitely felt during my interviews that the fact that I have 1.5 years of experience in the Gulf (but not in Saudi and not at a uni) made a huge difference when I was interviewed. I would say overall more than half of the questions I was asked pertained to how I would handle living in Saudi in general or as a single woman.
And in response to the "cultural difficulty allowance" comment, YES! I absolutely think jobs in Saudi should pay more because it is a harder environment to live in than other countries. Sure, some people like the Gulf and some like Saudi. I don't hate the Gulf and there are aspects of it that I appreciate but I do consider living in the Gulf a sacrifice - one that is worth it if you want lots of money. I think that it's important to consider the sacrifice you are going to make by moving to this part of the world, esp. Saudi, when considering whether or not a job is worth it. I wrote this post so that women who are thinking about applying for jobs in Saudi can have an idea of what is out there before going through months of applying. Had I known that uni salaries weren't as high as I had hoped, I wouldn't have gone through this process. This isn't to say that people shouldn't give the Gulf a chance - clearly I think it's worth it since I'm returning to the region. My advice is to realistically consider whether the money makes the life style changes that will be necessary, worth it. |
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baa_baa
Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:01 am Post subject: |
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I really feel that I must say this since somewhere here there is an advice to women.
If you choose to rent an apartment on your own then really you are on your own. There isn't anyone who will help. I am talking about a simple list of agents won't be even given to you. I thought I would be shown 2-3 apartments.
It's difficult to find an apartment on your own. I was lucky that one woman heard me tell errr TRYING to tell the HR my problem. She knew an agent who had an apartment available which i was forced to take for 24k (unfurnished)when only rents were between 17-20k. But it was 12 mid night and it was the last day that I could stay at the hotel for free. (Thursdays& fridays are off. People dont work before 5. I flew in on wed. night)Be sure to come with money. Though I got every penny it all came really late.
(Edit: you need to get your own AC as well. It's not like that in the UAE. Does anyone know how it works in Oman and Qatar just in case I go stupid and decide to travel there as well)
Gooodluck to all who consider coming alone.
Becareful with the HR they will not do what they are supposed to and yea they will make you pay the fine though its their fault. I can go on. 
but then again after settling in and going through so many disasters, the job is really easy compared to all the tasks I had when I was in the UAE. It's just the first six months that you blow in to a bag then you get used to 
Baaaa baaaaaaaa
Last edited by baa_baa on Sat May 25, 2013 2:40 am; edited 2 times in total |
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baa_baa
Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| DD3 wrote: |
| My advice is to realistically consider whether the money makes the life style changes that will be necessary, worth it. |
No it's not worth it unless you are placed in a really nice compound which you wouldn't know until after you VE arrived here.
They couldn't even write my name right for the airport pick up. They had my first name and some Chinese lady's last name. I just went with the driver anyways. It turns out he WAS supposed to pick me up.  
So you can't trust them, relay on them, etc.
Stick to other gulf countries where at least when you have a bad day you can go out and breathe. The other countries are a little less harsher  |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Baa-baa,
Name the name ! Which institution ? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| DD3 wrote: |
I definitely felt during my interviews that the fact that I have 1.5 years of experience in the Gulf (but not in Saudi and not at a uni) made a huge difference when I was interviewed. I would say overall more than half of the questions I was asked pertained to how I would handle living in Saudi in general or as a single woman.
And in response to the "cultural difficulty allowance" comment, YES! I absolutely think jobs in Saudi should pay more because it is a harder environment to live in than other countries. |
I'd say those questions about living in the Kingdom were generic, set interview prompts presented to most, if not all, interviewees. The employer wants to know if you can hack it before they spend any more time or money bringing you on board. From their perspective, an expat who requires lots of hand-holding outside the workplace isn't going to be a good fit in the workplace.
By the way, compared to men, women should get a larger cultural difficulty allowance considering we have a bigger lifestyle adjustment to contend with. Nah! Don't count on seeing such an allowance unless it's combat pay for teaching in a war zone (which probably describes some Saudi classrooms).
| and wrote: |
| I think that it's important to consider the sacrifice you are going to make by moving to this part of the world, esp. Saudi, when considering whether or not a job is worth it. I wrote this post so that women who are thinking about applying for jobs in Saudi can have an idea of what is out there before going through months of applying. Had I known that uni salaries weren't as high as I had hoped, I wouldn't have gone through this process. This isn't to say that people shouldn't give the Gulf a chance - clearly I think it's worth it since I'm returning to the region. My advice is to realistically consider whether the money makes the life style changes that will be necessary, worth it. |
Ah, but in order to see what employers determine you're worth (per your verified work experience), you would have to apply and hopefully, get an interview and subsequent job offer. That's how it works.
Some points, which have already been discussed ad nauseum throughout this forum:
1. Salaries in the Kingdom have been on the decline (there are at least a couple of threads devoted to this topic) while the required qualifications seem to be getting more specific. That's the reality. Yet, just having umteen number of years of experience often won't cut it in terms of getting an offer with a mega salary. It's the applicant's responsibility to provide employment verification letters from each previous employer if they're to get the best money for their experience since many employers calculate salary based on years of verified teaching experience. And even then, salaries are capped.
2. Those considering applying for positions in Saudi Arabia need to decide if they can handle those cultural difficulties before going through the time and hassle of filling out online applications and putting together a cover letter and CV. Taking a job in a foreign country is a major decision and Saudi Arabia is known the world over for its ultra-conservatism and challenging living conditions---no secret there. If one's expectations are high, they're bound to experience disappointment.
Yet, there are job seekers---men and women---who focus only on the financial aspect without fully contemplating what, if any, physical and mental sacrifices they and/or their family may have to make in order to live in a restrictive culture. When folks are disappointed, it's easier to put the blame on external, uncontrollable factors than on themselves for making an uninformed/poor decision. Anyway, there are forum comments about the good, the bad, and the downright oogly about living in the Kingdom. Instead of taking others' opinions with a grain of salt or as gospel, do your own analysis and research to ascertain what's real versus an exaggeration or isolated personal incident. |
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Dejvice
Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| What a really excellent thread, really informative. |
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powerpuffgirl
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 24
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks DD3, I agree with the above, your post offers valuable insight and is very useful indeed. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 3:58 am Post subject: |
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"Khalifa University" is not in Saudi.
| Quote: |
| And in response to the "cultural difficulty allowance" comment, YES! I absolutely think jobs in Saudi should pay more because it is a harder environment to live in than other countries. |
In most organizations in Saudi, whether academic or not, Westerners are paid anywhere from at least double to several times more than non-Westerners for the same job.
Isn't that enough of a "cultural difficulty allowance"? |
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colpaer1
Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: King Saud bin Abdulaziz University for Health Sciences - Job |
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Hi all,
This is my very first post - after months of reading hundreds already here, I've finally decided to join the conversation, as I have been offered several jobs now in Saudi, including King Saud bin Abdulaziz University for Health Sciences.
I'm a 25-year-old female American with an MA in TESL with 3 years teaching experience (2 of which were mostly with Saudis). I was offered 14,030 SR per month for a "Lecturer" position with most of the same benefits as most of the other jobs.
From what I've read, there's not as much information on this school as there is the others, and so I'm hoping to learn more about others' experiences who have worked here, most especially regarding how things held up with the contract, as many comments are related to companies not following through with what is stated in the contract.
Additionally, this is the first job offer I got where it states 60 days paid vacation; is this only a paid vacation if you sign up for your second year, or if you just successfully complete the 10 months of work? I've heard/read that sometimes you need to sign up for a second year to get the 30 or 60 day paid vacation.
That's all I've got for now - thanks to everyone who has posted regarding working in Saudi; it has been extremely informative and helpful. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: King Saud bin Abdulaziz University for Health Sciences - |
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| colpaer1 wrote: |
From what I've read, there's not as much information on this school as there is the others, and so I'm hoping to learn more about others' experiences who have worked here, most especially regarding how things held up with the contract, as many comments are related to companies not following through with what is stated in the contract.
Additionally, this is the first job offer I got where it states 60 days paid vacation; is this only a paid vacation if you sign up for your second year, or if you just successfully complete the 10 months of work? I've heard/read that sometimes you need to sign up for a second year to get the 30 or 60 day paid vacation. |
Since this is a direct-hire situation with a government university and not with some sketchy contracting company, there's no reason to assume your annual contract won't be honored. (This is also why you rarely see forum posts about specific universities---that is, those that hire directly.)
Forget what you've heard about having to sign up for a second year in order to get paid for your summer break. Even if you started in the middle of the academic year, your contract will still be valid through the summer, meaning you'd get paid (in advance) for those months. It's pretty straight forward compared to the hokey-pokey, smoke-n-mirrors nonsense EdEx, ICEAT, and others put teachers through. |
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colpaer1
Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you, nomad soul, that is reassuring to hear. |
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