Job Discussion Forums

[Lesface]

With July 3rd looming, and with the uncertainty that is pervading this board at the moment I'd like to raise the question of legal action against some of our more villainous hosts - one in particular that is well known to readers of these pages.

For those of us whose contracts expire after the 3rd, what can we do if they refuse to pay up the remainder of my contract? In fact, I am being told that I will not be paid for the last few weeks of my time in KSA before they boot me out.

The company in question has an office in London and Washington (USA), and is a registered business in the UK.

Can legal action be taken against them from the UK, and how do you do it?

In March I read a thread from someone who claimed he'd gone through the courts and WON.

Anyone know anyone about this guy?

[scot47]

If they have a presence in the UK you can try the Small Claims Procedure.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/law_e/law_legal_system_e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm

[PattyFlipper]

Whether or not legal action could be pursued through the English courts would principally depend on two factors:

1. Who is named as the employer in the contract of employment? Is it specifically Exxxxx Exxxxx UK Limited, or some other entity?

2. Does the contract of employment contain a ''governing law and forum" clause, which states which country's laws apply and which courts have jurisdiction in the event of disagreement? If such a clause exists, and it states that the contract is subject to Saudi law and the Saudi courts should have jurisdiction to determine disputes, then it would not usually be possible to take action through the English courts.

In the absence of a governing law and forum clause, it might be possible for anyone recruited from the UK by Exxxxx Exxxxx UK Limited (even if only acting as an agent for another entity) to commence proceedings in the UK, however since the contract was to be wholly performed in Saudi Arabia, the defendant might successfully argue that the English courts have no jurisdiction in the matter, particularly so if the UK company is not named as the actual employer.

I've also just checked the UK companies register, and it looks like the registered office of the company to which I think the OP is referring is a mail drop or business accommodation address. which likely means that even if an action were successful, there would be no UK assets from which to satisfy any compensatory award.

Any attempt at litigation in the UK would be throwing good money after bad, in my opinion.

[Lesface]

[nomad soul]

[robbie_davies]

Hello,

I know the guy in question very well! Top banana, good morale on the bus, wasn't a tightarse, made everyone laugh etc.

So, what I am going to do is denounce everything Party Flipper has typed out via my good mate who successfully sued e#e+ and got all his money.


Whether or not legal action could be pursued through the English courts would principally depend on two factors:

1. Who is named as the employer in the contract of employment? Is it specifically Exxxxx Exxxxx UK Limited, or some other entity?

Simply put - if a link can be proved that Education Experts UK Ltd are the same company as their partner company in Saudi Arabia, they can be took to court for monies owed. This is easily proved by the way so please PM me on how to do this.

2. Does the contract of employment contain a ''governing law and forum" clause, which states which country's laws apply and which courts have jurisdiction in the event of disagreement? If such a clause exists, and it states that the contract is subject to Saudi law and the Saudi courts should have jurisdiction to determine disputes, then it would not usually be possible to take action through the English courts.


Doesn't matter, basically, a limited company in the UK can be sued for monies owed even if events took place outside the jurisdiction of the EU. As long as you have a resident address in the UK, you can take a British limited company to court - which of course the company in question are. I haven't got the particular case on me but this has been in force in 2006 and people have been able to sue British companies for monies owed for work abroad.

In the absence of a governing law and forum clause, it might be possible for anyone recruited from the UK by Exxxxx Exxxxx UK Limited (even if only acting as an agent for another entity) to commence proceedings in the UK, however since the contract was to be wholly performed in Saudi Arabia, the defendant might successfully argue that the English courts have no jurisdiction in the matter, particularly so if the UK company is not named as the actual employer.

As long as a link between the British company and the company in Saudi Arabia can be proven to be partner companies then you can sue the UK company for monies owed abroad.

I've also just checked the UK companies register, and it looks like the registered office of the company to which I think the OP is referring is a mail drop or business accommodation address. which likely means that even if an action were successful, there would be no UK assets from which to satisfy any compensatory award.

The companies house address is a PO box but they do have an office and staff in London as a bailiff in a big van found out about three weeks ago when he went round to remove their tables, chairs and computers and the company paid up forthwith. I will happily PM the address of the office to anyone who wants it.

Any attempt at litigation in the UK would be throwing good money after bad, in my opinion.

Your opinion on this matter is not worth two farthings I am afraid me old china.

Simply put, they have of yet to give anyone any proper notice, even on their own contract it is one month, have they done that yet? Nope, so they are in breach of their own contract. Secondly, Harvey Wallbanger and the folks in London are complete morons, when my mate took them on - they didn't turn up to court but by then, my mate had plenty of email evidence to ensure that even if they did, they would have lost. The judge at Swansea county claims court knew that the action was outside the country and the EU but still gave it to the claimant.

So what you need to do from now on is this.

Write to Wallbanger and the Gorilla via email from now on, emails are admissible in court. Even if they don't reply to them, the judge will ask why they didn't reply to correspondence.

Clarify how much they owe you in future emails, do not talk to them in person or on the phone, make sure all correspondence is written. Keep your cool when you see them or speak to them, it is important not to lose it whilst you are still in Saudi Arabia, you have no rights and they have plenty of wasta - hit them hard when you get back home where you both have equal 'wasta'.

Depending on how much they owe you is how much you will pay the small claims courts, if you are an individual suing a limited company, they have to attend the nearest court to your address.

They have breached the contract, so make sure you factor in any months that you have missed because of the amnesty, not their fault but not yours either - and they have to compensate you.

You will get all money you have laid out for court action and the bailiff back when the bailiff turns up to their office to seize their goods, they will not pay it willingly, when you have your verdict from the small claims court, you need to transfer it to a high court judgement which gives the bailiffs a lot more power than a county court bailiff does.

It will take 3-4 months. It took me longer because my mate had to trace their real address seeing as the address at companies house was a PO box.

If you take them to court - you will get your money - my mate did and he says good luck to you all and to drop him a line via me if you need any more advice.

[Linguist]

Thanks Robbie. It's good to have this type of information available for everyone.

[robbie_davies]

[Lesface]

Thanks to all who have taken the trouble to research and reply, especially Robbie.

[robbie_davies]

[nomad soul]

[robbie_davies]

[nomad soul]

Without knowing the specifics of the situation, it's all conjecture at this point. However, it certainly illustrates why it's best to avoid signing on with what the OP referred to as "villainous hosts."

[robbie_davies]

[robbie_davies]

Looks like The Gorilla and Wallbanger are trying to start a campaign of disinformation around the sandcastle, telling teachers that they WON their court case.

The truth is that they were so badly embarrassed by my pal, that they didn't even turn up to defend their case and was won easily on the day. Wallbanger, a 'respected' academic, was severely outclassed and hammered in the run up to the court date in email exchanges, what neither of the 'dangerous brothers' seem to know is that there are enough teachers at the sandcastle who have legal documentation that clearly shows the company took a hammering in court and that the teachers under their charge have legitimate recourse for any potential thievery.

A message of warning to The Gorilla and Harvey Wallbanger.

You are knowingly going to rip off your teachers and make hundreds and thousands of pounds but this time, this year - you won't be getting away with it when all the British teachers wake up to the fact that you can be got at. Telling teachers that you won when you got highly embarrassed on the day of action is a last gasp tactic of the desperate - enjoy whatever money you steal - because I think it will be last big pay packets you are going to enjoy whilst being employed, it all had to end sometime boys - you were always going to meet your match one day.