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BadBeagleBad
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 1186 Location: 24.18105,-103.25185
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: |
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LongShiKong wrote: |
BadBeagleBad wrote: |
Well, that is your opinion, not sure what it is based on.
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It's based on consensus and I've come across two teachers whose face-to-face students have switched to online with them, or so they claim. The OP's use of the term 'great' now confuses me because virtually all of us would consider a company paying an experienced or qualified native English speaking teacher $5/hr to be a 'great scam' regardless of what their local cost of living is. |
Well, since I make no where near $5 an hour I would have to agree that that is not great anywhere I can think of. Though where I live it would actually be livable, decent middle class, but no frills. Not much savings or travel, but still a very livable wage. I think online teaching can work well for people who live outside the US/UK/Canada, but it is not a living wage at all there. On the other hand, if you have a 2 or more hour commute a day, as I did in Mexico City, you end up making only a little more than that if you add in professional dress, commute time, transportation costs, etc. |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 1317 Location: under da sea
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:06 am Post subject: |
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I guess the future of online teaching might be outsourced then. I really want to do it, but I can't work for half-minimum wage here in Canada |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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inotu-unotme wrote: |
This is another interesting thing I've found. Quite a few teachers who have been the business of teaching on-line for quite awhile say that $15.00 dollars per hour is to low. So, I have to ask, 'How much money are these people making teaching on-line that think $15.00 per hour is to low?'
In my experience on-line ESL teachers make around $10.00 dollars per hour on average. Again, this is on average in my experience. There's some schools said to pay $20 - 25.00 dollars per hour. But, I don't work for them and I don't know anyone who works for them. If there are teachers making $20- $25.00 dollars per hour I would think more people would work for these companies on a full-time basis? I really don't think making around $10.00 dollars per hour is 'bad pay' or 'to low.' And I feel anything above $15 dollars per hour is nice pay.
So, the question is, 'Is making around $10.00 dollars per hour for teaching on-line really that bad?' And what requirements and education or experience is needed for these $25.00 dollar per hour jobs? Lastly, why don't more teachers work these higher paying $25.00 per hour jobs? |
I can't imagine anyone preferring online to face-to-face, all other things being equal. In China, public transport is $0.30 to $0.60 and those with nothing other than a (random) degree can earn $20/hr for face-to-face, usually with free, nearby accommodation/housing bonus, and an end-of-contract bonus covering return airfare. Some aren't even native English speakers.
@BadBeagleBad or anyone else: What % of your students' tuition do you get and what does Open English provide for their cut? What's to stop you from going solo taking your students with you, or to stop them from proposing it? I presume it's expensive proprietary software, periodic assessment and goal redefining with their counsellors, access to online content, and/or any other 'professional' services that instill confidence in themselves and in Open Eng--essentially, TLC. Is that not something you could provide on your own with a modest investment and a few testimonials/references obtained on your own? |
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inotu-unotme
Joined: 26 May 2013 Posts: 197
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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LongShiKong wrote: |
inotu-unotme wrote: |
This is another interesting thing I've found. Quite a few teachers who have been the business of teaching on-line for quite awhile say that $15.00 dollars per hour is to low. So, I have to ask, 'How much money are these people making teaching on-line that think $15.00 per hour is to low?'
In my experience on-line ESL teachers make around $10.00 dollars per hour on average. Again, this is on average in my experience. There's some schools said to pay $20 - 25.00 dollars per hour. But, I don't work for them and I don't know anyone who works for them. If there are teachers making $20- $25.00 dollars per hour I would think more people would work for these companies on a full-time basis? I really don't think making around $10.00 dollars per hour is 'bad pay' or 'to low.' And I feel anything above $15 dollars per hour is nice pay.
So, the question is, 'Is making around $10.00 dollars per hour for teaching on-line really that bad?' And what requirements and education or experience is needed for these $25.00 dollar per hour jobs? Lastly, why don't more teachers work these higher paying $25.00 per hour jobs? |
I can't imagine anyone preferring online to face-to-face, all other things being equal. In China, public transport is $0.30 to $0.60 and those with nothing other than a (random) degree can earn $20/hr for face-to-face, usually with free, nearby accommodation/housing bonus, and an end-of-contract bonus covering return airfare. Some aren't even native English speakers.
@BadBeagleBad or anyone else: What % of your students' tuition do you get and what does Open English provide for their cut? What's to stop you from going solo taking your students with you, or to stop them from proposing it? I presume it's expensive proprietary software, periodic assessment and goal redefining with their counsellors, access to online content, and/or any other 'professional' services that instill confidence in themselves and in Open Eng--essentially, TLC. Is that not something you could provide on your own with a modest investment and a few testimonials/references obtained on your own? |
I'm not attempting to answer the question but add something...
I do know that some students who use on line tutoring have the tuition paid by their company.
Some companies would never be willing to pay an individual teaching on line simply because they are an individual.
One company I was connected with had a great deal of contracts with large companies.
Also, it was explained to me that some people don't have internet at their home and therefore use the company computers at work for their on line lessons. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
why don't more teachers work these higher paying $25.00 per hour jobs? |
this presupposes that there is unfulfilled demand for such openings. The jobs exist, but not in huge numbers. That's the essential fallacy of the entire thread, IMO.
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I can't imagine anyone preferring online to face-to-face, all other things being equal. |
Personally, I can only imagine this if people have child care issues. But I'm sure there are other reasons. |
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BadBeagleBad
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 1186 Location: 24.18105,-103.25185
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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LongShiKong wrote: |
I can't imagine anyone preferring online to face-to-face, all other things being equal. In China, public transport is $0.30 to $0.60 and those with nothing other than a (random) degree can earn $20/hr for face-to-face, usually with free, nearby accommodation/housing bonus, and an end-of-contract bonus covering return airfare. Some aren't even native English speakers.
@BadBeagleBad or anyone else: What % of your students' tuition do you get and what does Open English provide for their cut? What's to stop you from going solo taking your students with you, or to stop them from proposing it? I presume it's expensive proprietary software, periodic assessment and goal redefining with their counsellors, access to online content, and/or any other 'professional' services that instill confidence in themselves and in Open Eng--essentially, TLC. Is that not something you could provide on your own with a modest investment and a few testimonials/references obtained on your own? |
With Open English the live classes are only a part of the package that students pay for, there are also video lessons, exercises, grammar lessons, test prep, Ask A Teacher, which is a place where they can go to get one on one tutoring, conversation class rooms and the traditional classes. There is no limit on how many classes they can take, so it is not like a Skype class where they pay per class, it is an all inclusive package. I am happy with my pay, because working online allowed me to move to a small town where there really isn´t any work for me (though I do have another very part time job that does pay closer to $5 an hour, but I do that job because I want to, not because I need to). You might be surprised at how engaging teaching online can be, especially if you get regular students that you get to know a bit. In my case, I am not longer teaching, having moved into a supervisory position at the beginning of the year, and am doing a job that I could do from an office pretty much anywhere, the only difference is that I work in a home office. Aside from working online, I take a weekly Portuguese class with a teacher in Brazil (via Skype) and aside from that am working through the Portguese course on Babbel), so I have seen online classes from both sides. They are not for everyone. I think you have to be very motivated and someone self disiplined, if you don´t have a specific class to go to it is really easy to just say, oh, I am tired I will go tomorrow. I am not trying to convince anyone that online classes are better, or that they should teach online. For me, in my particular situation, it was a no brainer. I have wanted to get out of Mexico City for many years, and this allowed me to do that, while at the same time having a very liveable wage, allowing me the time, and money, to travel several times a year, as well as to save. That is my situation, your mileage may vary. |
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BadBeagleBad
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 1186 Location: 24.18105,-103.25185
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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LongShiKong wrote: |
I can't imagine anyone preferring online to face-to-face, all other things being equal. In China, public transport is $0.30 to $0.60 and those with nothing other than a (random) degree can earn $20/hr for face-to-face, usually with free, nearby accommodation/housing bonus, and an end-of-contract bonus covering return airfare. Some aren't even native English speakers.
@BadBeagleBad or anyone else: What % of your students' tuition do you get and what does Open English provide for their cut? What's to stop you from going solo taking your students with you, or to stop them from proposing it? I presume it's expensive proprietary software, periodic assessment and goal redefining with their counsellors, access to online content, and/or any other 'professional' services that instill confidence in themselves and in Open Eng--essentially, TLC. Is that not something you could provide on your own with a modest investment and a few testimonials/references obtained on your own? |
With Open English the live classes are only a part of the package that students pay for, there are also video lessons, exercises, grammar lessons, test prep, Ask A Teacher, which is a place where they can go to get one on one tutoring, conversation class rooms and the traditional classes. There is no limit on how many classes they can take, so it is not like a Skype class where they pay per class, it is an all inclusive package. I am happy with my pay, because working online allowed me to move to a small town where there really isn´t any work for me (though I do have another very part time job that does pay closer to $5 an hour, but I do that job because I want to, not because I need to). You might be surprised at how engaging teaching online can be, especially if you get regular students that you get to know a bit. In my case, I am not longer teaching, having moved into a supervisory position at the beginning of the year, and am doing a job that I could do from an office pretty much anywhere, the only difference is that I work in a home office. Aside from working online, I take a weekly Portuguese class with a teacher in Brazil (via Skype) and aside from that am working through the Portguese course on Babbel), so I have seen online classes from both sides. They are not for everyone. I think you have to be very motivated and someone self disiplined, if you don´t have a specific class to go to it is really easy to just say, oh, I am tired I will go tomorrow. I am not trying to convince anyone that online classes are better, or that they should teach online. For me, in my particular situation, it was a no brainer. I have wanted to get out of Mexico City for many years, and this allowed me to do that, while at the same time having a very liveable wage, allowing me the time, and money, to travel several times a year, as well as to save. That is my situation, your mileage may vary. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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On the overall notion of our providing contacts to online (or any other) schools, let me put it this way.
I know a few, some of which pay far more (for commensurate qualifications) than stated above.
However, by no means would I post contacts to these schools here or anywhere else.
I think it would be unethical to do so; I could be responsible for a potential deluge of unsolicited (and possibly unwanted) applications.
Schools which want to solicit applications usually advertise somewhere. It's their prerogative to choose when and where to advertise.
It would be unethical of us to post such contacts.
I feel the same way about the lists posted in the country-specific forums. If I owned/managed a school on the list and suddenly received a lot of applications, I'd be annoyed and would consider anyone who posted MY BUSINESS' contact information publically without my permission utterly without professional standards. |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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@Santi84: Don't despair, here's an example of the rates of a mother who's qualified, experienced and teaches online in Greece. She's evidently learned to use the web to her advantage. You can also find her 'profile' and 'group activity'. (I'll PM you her details) Judging by her comments, she might be happy to advise you on how to get started as you'd pose no direct competition. I've noticed others doing this are eager to share the secrets of their success. Indeed, the collaboration between those who do this might be to mutual benefit (against the Open English, and TEACH (Talk to Expat Canadian Homebodies) exploiters.
Online Teaching Rates
One-on-One at $20-30 per hour
Group Teaching at $10-20 per hour
In Person Teaching
One-on-One at $10-20 per hour
Group Teaching at $20-30 per hour
Offers free trial classes |
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inotu-unotme
Joined: 26 May 2013 Posts: 197
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Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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LongShiKong wrote: |
@Santi84: Don't despair, here's an example of the rates of a mother who's qualified, experienced and teaches online in Greece. She's evidently learned to use the web to her advantage. You can also find her 'profile' and 'group activity'. (I'll PM you her details) Judging by her comments, she might be happy to advise you on how to get started as you'd pose no direct competition. I've noticed others doing this are eager to share the secrets of their success. Indeed, the collaboration between those who do this might be to mutual benefit (against the Open English, and TEACH (Talk to Expat Canadian Homebodies) exploiters.
Online Teaching Rates
One-on-One at $20-30 per hour
Group Teaching at $10-20 per hour
In Person Teaching
One-on-One at $10-20 per hour
Group Teaching at $20-30 per hour
Offers free trial classes |
I would never attempt to start my own on line tutoring business.
Its way to involved for me.
But, can you provide this persons web site?
I'd like to take a look at it. |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China
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Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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BadBeagleBad wrote: |
With Open English the live classes are only a part of the package... |
Santi84 suggests (initial) hrly rates at TalktoCanada, despite the range advertised ($12-$20/hr), are not that negotiable as I'm sure client satisfaction matters far more than your (claimed) qual's or experience when they hire you. If the salary range does exist, then I presume you've got to 'climb up the ladder' proving yourself at each step. What do others make teaching for OpenEnglish, have you contacted or asked them? |
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inotu-unotme
Joined: 26 May 2013 Posts: 197
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Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not an authority on open English but this is an overview:
Open English was originally founded in 2006, and its companies, with offices in Miami, Caracas, Bogotá, São Paulo, and Panamá, combine the best of U.S. corporate governance practices with efficient Latin American operations and deep knowledge of the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking consumer/student.
I don't know anyone personally who is taking classes from them which does not mean anything.
But, Its advertised a fair amount in Mexico.
Compensation:
$9 per class; $10 per class after the first 6 invoice periods (bi-monthly, approximately 15 days between invoices), $10.50 after 12 invoice periods, $11 after 18 invoice periods and $12 per class after teaching 48 consecutive invoice periods in good standing. (Each class is 45 minutes long and all materials are provided by Open English.) For each milestone of 2,000 classes taught, a teacher will receive an additional incentive of $1,000 USD. Incentive milestones are calculated and payments disbursed at the conclusion of the second and fourth quarters of each year. No partial incentive payments are considered. |
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Xie Lin
Joined: 21 Oct 2011 Posts: 731
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Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:06 am Post subject: |
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inotu-unotme wrote: |
I'm not an authority on open English but this is an overview:
Open English was originally founded in 2006, and its companies, with offices in Miami, Caracas, Bogotá, São Paulo, and Panamá, combine the best of U.S. corporate governance practices with efficient Latin American operations and deep knowledge of the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking consumer/student.
I don't know anyone personally who is taking classes from them which does not mean anything.
But, Its advertised a fair amount in Mexico.
Compensation:
$9 per class; $10 per class after the first 6 invoice periods (bi-monthly, approximately 15 days between invoices), $10.50 after 12 invoice periods, $11 after 18 invoice periods and $12 per class after teaching 48 consecutive invoice periods in good standing. (Each class is 45 minutes long and all materials are provided by Open English.) For each milestone of 2,000 classes taught, a teacher will receive an additional incentive of $1,000 USD. Incentive milestones are calculated and payments disbursed at the conclusion of the second and fourth quarters of each year. No partial incentive payments are considered. |
I'm assuming this is taken directly from material published by Open English, either print or internet-based. Perhaps you don't understand the accepted rules (and ethics) of attribution? Seems perhaps a tad unscrupulous anyway, since a teacher who has identified herself as working for Open English is contributing to this very thread, as you surely must be aware. Had she wanted this level of detail posted, no doubt she would have done so herself.
Note that LSK's question was directed to BBB.
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inotu-unotme
Joined: 26 May 2013 Posts: 197
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Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:14 am Post subject: |
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Daves is used for education purposes..
Copying material to be used for educational purposes is legal.
And please...
We are discussing what on line companies are out there and what their possible links are amoung other possible employment details.
Anyone has the right to comment on forums as long as its related to the forum discussion.
The female teacher in question actually does not work for open English.
I know this because I've seen her company and communicated with her.
The womans name and company have never been stated here.
The official rules of Daves ESL...
Members should address the message not the messenger:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=77750
No Trolls:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=77631
Last edited by inotu-unotme on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Daves is used to education purposes..
Copying material to be used for educational purposes is legal. |
No, this is not a carte blanche to copy, use, and especially post materials. Even in countries where it is generally accepted that one can use the work of others, it is considered plagiarism unless credit is given to the source.
Quote: |
And please...
We are discussing what on line companies are out there and what their possible links are amoung other possible employment details |
See my earlier post about posting links to any school. It's unethical and unprofessional. |
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