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CELTA or CELTA + TEYL?

 
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bansheebeat



Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:10 am    Post subject: CELTA or CELTA + TEYL? Reply with quote

I am looking at CELTA courses offered by ECC in Thailand. I noticed they offer regular CELTA courses along with CELTA + TEYL. Would it be beneficial to get the young learners extension at the same time as the CELTA? Are there any drawbacks to this?
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 2560
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a thread not too far below this one, called "Teaching kids with a CELTA?", that may be of interest. I'd've thought the main drawback to adding the YL extension would be the additional time and money involved. Razz I'm not sure it provides enough to justify the investment, but it might give total novices a few pointers or confidence or whatever should they end up teaching mainly YLs from the very start. This is obviously where some market research comes in, but YL classes can be encountered anywhere really!

Last edited by fluffyhamster on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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bansheebeat



Joined: 02 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:
There's a thread not too far below this one, called "Teaching kids with a CELTA?", that may be of interest. I'd've thought the main drawback to adding the YL extension would be the additional time and money involved. Razz I'm not sure it provides enough to justify the investment, but it might give total novices a few pointers or confidence or whatever should they end up teaching mainly YLs right from the start of their career.


From what I can tell on the website it seems to be the same price. The extra time factor was one thing I was wondering about though.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh well if the YL extension is a genuine freebie, it might then be worth doing!
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chinaamber



Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 72
Location: Guiyang

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TEYL they offer is not the official Cambridge extension so, whilst it may be useful training, it is not an official extension to the CELTA. The only drawbacks I can see is whether it would be as universally accepted as the Cambridge extension and whether it goes as indepth. They also seem to offer one age range, 7-12, Cambridge require you cover two. For example, mine covered YLs and Teens. I guess it depends on you reason for wanting to take the course, personal development or a shiny certificate.
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bansheebeat



Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chinaamber wrote:
The TEYL they offer is not the official Cambridge extension so, whilst it may be useful training, it is not an official extension to the CELTA. The only drawbacks I can see is whether it would be as universally accepted as the Cambridge extension and whether it goes as indepth. They also seem to offer one age range, 7-12, Cambridge require you cover two. For example, mine covered YLs and Teens. I guess it depends on you reason for wanting to take the course, personal development or a shiny certificate.


Ah! Good to know. Thanks for clarifying! I mostly was interested for my own development. I like children, and have experience in teaching them (music lessons mostly), but the thought of a "classroom experience" with kids seems a bit intimidating.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's good that Chinaamber checked the original site, as it's easy from your OP to assume that the actual full YL extension was what was being discussed, Banshee! But the 10-15 hour TEYL freebie might still be worth something too, eh!

IMHO the essential thing is Are you good with kids? By which I mean, not can you just babysit them and pander somewhat, but can you get into their little noggins - do you have a good idea of how to relate to them, of what makes them tick, and of what'll make them really hum? Beware advice that focuses on the 3Ds (discipline, discipline, and yet more discipline) and too much routine, or that is too babyish and/or neglects the linguistic~creative.
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bansheebeat



Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:
It's good that Chinaamber checked the original site, as it's easy from your OP to assume that the actual full YL extension was what was being discussed, Banshee! But the 10-15 hour TEYL freebie might still be worth something too, eh!

IMHO the essential thing is Are you good with kids? By which I mean, not can you just babysit them and pander somewhat, but can you get into their little noggins - do you have a good idea of how to relate to them, of what makes them tick, and of what'll make them really hum? Beware advice that focuses on the 3Ds (discipline, discipline, and yet more discipline) and too much routine, or that is too babyish and/or neglects the linguistic~creative.


Well I mean I like kids. And I was essentially a 'father' for 2 years of my life. However there is a difference in liking kids and being "good" with them and having to teach them in a classroom! I'll probably opt for the TEYL extension even if it isn't official, if nothing else it may give me a bit of a heads up as to how to deal with certain situations that may arise.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The TEYL they offer is not the official Cambridge extension so, whilst it may be useful training, it is not an official extension to the CELTA. The only drawbacks I can see is whether it would be as universally accepted as the Cambridge extension and whether it goes as in depth.



Very few employers will care whether a TEYL course is the Cambridge YL extension. (The CELTA itself, yes--the brand name is the one most desired by employers.) But most will not care whether your YL course is a generic or a brand name. Assess the quality of the course certainly, but don't be too concerned about name recognition.

.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would the UCLES magic cease to cast a spell when it comes to TEYL TT, Xie Lin? Is it still too much of a subfield for any one brand to have caught on or developed a monopoly? And have you been in many hiring positions? Just curious as to your reasoning.
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 801

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:
Why would the UCLES magic cease to cast a spell when it comes to TEYL TT, Xie Lin? Is it still too much of a subfield for any one brand to have caught on or developed a monopoly? And have you been in many hiring positions? Just curious as to your reasoning.


Cambridge barely promote it, hardly anywhere runs it, and many people have never heard of it. If Cambridge threw their marketing weight behind it, it would probably catch up, but as it is, it's no better known than any other YL course.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:
Why would the UCLES magic cease to cast a spell when it comes to TEYL TT, Xie Lin? Is it still too much of a subfield for any one brand to have caught on or developed a monopoly? And have you been in many hiring positions? Just curious as to your reasoning.


Well, fluffy, you've raised some good points. Reading my earlier post now, I see that I wrote in haste and used very poor phrasing. Instead of the global "Very few employers will care. . . ," I should have written that "In my experience. . ."

So: in my over 20 years in the field, I have not personally encountered an employer who made a hiring decision on the basis of a generic or name brand TEYL course. Way back at the beginning of time, I took a generic YL course; I already had a CELTA. Early on I had employers ask questions about contact hours, syllabus, observed TP, but none seemed to care about the lack of a brand name. Since then I've acquired further qualifications, and it's been a long time since anyone has asked anything at all about the TEYL cert.

I have been on several hiring committees; not one of my fellow committee members has ever considered a generic course as a sticking point. (Although for the most part these were not entry-level positions that were being filled; the applicants had more advanced quals, and would not be teaching children anyway.) So, now that you have me thinking about this in more detail, it's not really the most directly applicable experience to the question at hand.

Also, I did not take a look at the specific program that the OP is considering before I wrote my post. 10-15 hours is NOT an equivalent--not even close! Still, as you say, probably worth doing since it is free, but certainly not a comparable YL course. The Cambridge extension course is 50 hours including TP. Generics are often in the 40-hour range, but the TP is in addition to those hours.

Given my own experience, I am still of the opinion that brand names of YL certs matter very little. (And matter not at all once further qualifications and experience are acquired. But others' experience may vary. Very Happy

.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 288

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Cambridge barely promote it, hardly anywhere runs it, and many people have never heard of it. If Cambridge threw their marketing weight behind it, it would probably catch up, but as it is, it's no better known than any other YL course.



Good, succinct answer that goes directly to the point in this marketing-driven world! Answers fluffy's question much better than I did. Very Happy

.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1931
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chinaamber wrote:
I guess it depends on you reason for wanting to take the course, personal development or a shiny certificate.


SHINY NEW CERT Cool
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