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inotu-unotme



Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="JoeKing"]
inotu-unotme wrote:
I have to say Korea or China would be best for you money wise.
You stand to make the very most out of Korea.
China $ only falls second to Korea.


Where did you get that from? Word on the street says Japan and Taiwan round out the big 3 along with Korea for dough, at least in Asia. And yes, that is even after factoring in cost of living. It's arguable if China even beats out Vietnam or Thailand. Don't get me wrong - I am teaching here in China and loving it, but I kind of fell into my position by pure luck.

inotu-unotme wrote:

I have to say if you want to teach abroad you have to really want it.
If someone is doing it just for the money I'd recommend against it.
Well, you may not get rich, but a lot of people have been able to put big dents in their students loans, and/or save enough to have some starter money for when they decide to go home - if they ever do.
[quote="inotu-unotme"]


I know its always easier to jump on a bashing session with others.
But, If you do a little research for Taiwan you will find it is very difficult to find ESL work there.
Last time I spoke to any schools there they wanted teaching credentials.
And from what I understand even with credentials for a non local its still difficult to land an ESL job in a private language school or public school.
If you look at the forums on Daves it will state as much.

With Japan it used to be easy to land ESL jobs there.
And they used to pay high according to a few of my teachers who taught there back in the day.
Now Japan has been affected by the economy like everywhere else.
Many people are applying to open jobs and the pay has gone down from what it was years ago.
A friend who teaches there says her main hit is the rent and food.
She is good at teaching and likes it there but says she just makes it by.
But, she is an ESL teacher working at a language school.
She does not have a high paying position at a university.

As far as getting rich doing ESL teaching, I don't think its possible for the most part.
But, that being said theres always exceptions.
However, with Korea and China there are age limits.
I'm not saying the op falls into the age limit where he will get turned away.
What I am saying is that because of the age limits Korea and China would not work for everyone.
But, its a good chance to make money if you can get a good opportunity.
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inotu-unotme



Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
Xie Lin wrote:


Ummmm. . . Perhaps you didn't read the opening post? I'd be really surprised if one other person in Mexico thinks that it would be a good move for a newbie with an on-line cert and burdened by student loans and "crippling debt" to look for an entry-level position in Mexico. It wouldn't. It really, really wouldn't be a smart move.


Not to mention that you can't change from a tourist visa to a work visa once you are in Mexico, you have to get a job before getting there, or work illegally. The only real way to earn money in Mexico is to be a certified teacher, work at a UNI, or be able to live on fairly low pay while you work your way up. I don't think the OP fits into any of those categories.


This issue is up to the OP to decide.
South America is somewhere one can teach with an on line certificate.
That is why I listed Chile and Mexico.
It depends what the OP is wanting to do.
I said nothing of visas.
All countries have different visa issues to deal with - some more difficult than others.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9320
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you are offering advice, it would be useful to know where, exactly, your own direct experience is, inotu. Otherwise, all is second/third hand.

From your earlier posts, not Japan. Not the M.E. Definitely not Europe. I believe not Asia, but feel free to clarify.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 305

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inotu-unotme wrote:


This issue is up to the OP to decide.
South America is somewhere one can teach with an on line certificate.
That is why I listed Chile and Mexico.
It depends what the OP is wanting to do.
I said nothing of visas.



Well, yes, of course it is up to the OP to decide. But is it really responsible advice to suggest Chile or Mexico to someone with huge debts to pay off with an entry-level job? Mike has provided a very detailed post about his situation. Mexico and Chile may well be two of YOUR favorite countries, but neither is the answer to the questions the OP has asked. Ditto Japan.



and
Quote:


With Japan it used to be easy to land ESL jobs there.
And they used to pay high according to a few of my teachers who taught there back in the day.
Now Japan has been affected by the economy like everywhere else.
Many people are applying to open jobs and the pay has gone down from what it was years ago.
A friend who teaches there says her main hit is the rent and food.
She is good at teaching and likes it there but says she just makes it by.
But, she is an ESL teacher working at a language school.
She does not have a high paying position at a university.



??????

The OP is in no position just now to consider Japan. Start-up costs for Japan are among the highest in the world. Again, just read the OP's very detailed post. He can 't go anywhere with big start-up costs. He has minimal qualifications, high debt, and little or no savings. None of these three countries is a serious possibility for him.

.


Last edited by Xie Lin on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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JoeKing



Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inotu-unotme wrote:



I know its always easier to jump on a bashing session with others.
But, If you do a little research for Taiwan you will find it is very difficult to find ESL work there.

Sorry, I was not trying to bash you or single you out. I realize it is difficult sometimes to detect tone from the written word, but even my opening "Where did you get that from?" was not meant to be sarcastic, it's just I did not know how you were ranking China second in pay. But perhaps you were only talking about start up costs.

I even agreed with you about Florida teaching requirements, and you do make some good points about Taiwan and Japan.

inotu-unotme wrote:

As far as getting rich doing ESL teaching, I don't think its possible for the most part.
But, that being said theres always exceptions.
I still disagree with you here, though. Again, no one is talking about getting rich. But many have been able, due to lower living expenses, to pay off large portions of student loans and other debts. Unless your job prospects are really good in the US or wherever you live, it is easier to save here in Asia than there. There are tradeoffs, to be sure, but there usually are when you are trying to turn "crippling debt" into "manageable debt". But personally I would take living in a small one room apartment in a cool Asian city over living with Mom and Dad almost anywhere.
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inotu-unotme



Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
As you are offering advice, it would be useful to know where, exactly, your own direct experience is, inotu. Otherwise, all is second/third hand.

From your earlier posts, not Japan. Not the M.E. Definitely not Europe. I believe not Asia, but feel free to clarify.


Nooooo, Wink

I'm not fallin into that conversation with you because you twist things around I say.

The information is not 2nd or 3rd hand about Asia - but - regardless its easy enough for op to check out.
I have always thought it best for people to contact some schools themselves.
OP will slowly but surely start to get information.
Some school directors are more open than others and thats when you get nice information and good contacts.
I have never thought it wise to take information of any kind straight from Daves as gospel.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9320
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
spiral78 wrote:
As you are offering advice, it would be useful to know where, exactly, your own direct experience is, inotu. Otherwise, all is second/third hand.

From your earlier posts, not Japan. Not the M.E. Definitely not Europe. I believe not Asia, but feel free to clarify.


Nooooo, Wink

I'm not fallin into that conversation with you because you twist things around I say.


There have been numerous discussions over the years regarding posters who offer advice on countries/regions/issues they have no direct experience with. It's generally agreed that this isn't credible. That's why I ask.

Personally, I limit advice to the regions and issues I actually know something about. Otherwise, we are not actually contributing anything very useful to the conversation, and offering unsubstantiated second or third hand advice makes the boards less credible overall.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8928
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too right, Spiral. It is always for the best for us all to follow that rule. I do not even comment too much on TEFL in Far Eastern cities in Russia, as it is basically beyond my neck of the woods and ken. I know many people there, but that really isn't of any direct use here.
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Cezzie



Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm definitely not the most experienced ESL teacher here (and I'm sorry to be bumping this post up one month later) but, as long as you're able-bodied, why don't you consider working elsewhere for now?

If you have so many financial woes that make it difficult to renew your passport (in the UK, it's at least £72 so I know it can be expensive), buy a plane ticket, create a small savings to live off for your first month abroad, etc., why don't you get a job outside of teaching? You live so close to such a big city, I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to earn extra cash.

I worked three jobs all outside of teaching (at a travel agents, a gas station and at a bar) to buy a plane ticket and take enough with me for the first month. It was hard work but it was worth it because it meant I could eventually do what I wanted to do which was teach.

I'm not saying this to be unnecessarily mean but you can't just let your problems get on top of you. You have to work really hard to achieve things you want; The world doesn't owe you anything.
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ryanlogic



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 62
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's amazing how your demeanor resembles my own on days that are really tough. Sometimes I just feel pitiful and hopeless but I can attest to the above posters advice; You've got to keep moving. Stay BUSY... Feeling sorry for yourself just makes your dreams fragile like glass. You've got to toughen them up.

If you are living on your parents couch, the only time you should be home is to sleep on it.

I initially thought I was going to travel and teach English with nothing but a high school diploma and a TESOL certificate like you have. I met a few backpackers online who were traveling all over Asia and teaching English in language mills with crappy online certificates and I thought I was going to be able to start from there. If you don't believe me you can check out this forum thread from 2009:

http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/showthread.php/4508-future-expat

If you read that thread, you will see that I decided to finish college. It has taken me 5 years to get close to graduation.

I stand to graduate with 2 bachelors degrees this summer. I will likely harbor just as much if not more student loan debt as you... And I haven't had a parents couch to crash on since shortly after the above thread was posted.and it was never very comfortable to begin with.

I happen to be married now too.

I too happen to be trying to figure which jobs are available to me, and how to pay for things like CELTA along with start up costs which include bringing my wife along with me wherever I go.

Two things:

1.) I haven't given up. I'm still trying to make my dreams come true.

2.) I'm not afraid to work, not am I disillusioned enough to think that I deserve some kind of special treatment just because I have a degree or two.

I have worked every crap job that can be thought of. Everything from kitchen work to bus driving which is what I do now.

If I was in your position I would get an evening job at walgreens, a gas station, or even a fast food restaurant... ANYTHING. Continue substitute teaching and save up some money. If you feel entitled to better jobs just because you have a bachelors degree then I truly feel sorry for you. Sometimes you have to work your way up from the bottom.

If you can't deal with something like that then you are not a good candidate for working in an entry level ESL setting even if you think you don't mind "roughing it" because it's a lot easier to "rough it " here than to "rough it" in Mexico, or undeveloped parts of Asia. You've got to put your head down and work.

Even if I can't jump on a plane right after I graduate, I'm not going to give up. I intend to work hard and do whatever it takes to get where I want to be. That includes working two jobs and suffering if that's what it takes.

I'm even considering staff positions at my university in the janitorial department simply because staff position provide two free classes a semester. Even though It would be miserable, I would be able to start working towards a masters degree in TESOL. That would be my last option because I would hate to have to wait another two years to reach my goals... But it would be two years spent working towards them and improving my chances for decent jobs.

I hate to be that guy, but.... Buck up kiddo. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, you've got work to do.

Hopefully you can find solace in hearing that from someone who has struggled to keep his head above water more than a few times. I know what it's like to feel hopeless and pitiful. That being said, the best advice is usually that which serves up a little bit of cold harsh reality.

Whether it's a dishwashing job in a dive restaurant or a graveyard shift putting labels on boxes in a warehouse full of meth addicts... Shitty jobs have always motivated me to move on to something better. I guess I've never had a warm couch to come home to after I quit out of self pity... So I guess your struggle may be a different one entirely.

Best of luck,
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Allthechildrenareinsane



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AGoodStory wrote:
Hello, Mike from New York!

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum. (ETA: oops, I see Denim-Maniac beat me to it!)

Here is the short answer to your post:

Good B.A. + crap TEFL cert + big student loans + no savings = Korea.


ROFL. . .this.

OP, as many others have already pointed out (but might bear repeating), your best options for a TEFL job given your current qualifications are either K-land or China. In this field, it's not always necessarily how much you earn, but how much you can save that makes a salary/benefits package attractive.

China and K-land are attractive b/c, for a newbie like yourself, they offer the greatest savings potential. W/ employer-paid accommodation, flight reimbursement, and a relatively low cost of living compared w/ the New York metro area, you have the potential to save quite a bit each month while still having money left over for travel, entertainment, etc. Since you stated that you have an online TEFL cert, this plus your BA would qualify you for a public school job in K-land.

It's a shame about your Italian citizenship (I actually just had my appointment at the Italian consulate here in my home city for my dual citizenship application), however, given the current state of the job market in Italy and the rest of the EU, as well as the relatively low-paid nature of most TEFL jobs in Italy, it's probably not as great a loss as you might think. Do a few years somewhere in East Asia, improve your quals (CELTA/Trinity cert, related MA, post-MA teaching experience), and you can then apply for some of the better paying jobs in the Gulf.
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