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The CFTU whitelist, has anyone actually seen it?
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manrae



Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject: The CFTU whitelist, has anyone actually seen it? Reply with quote

Hi I'm new around here and I've been looking for work overseas (no luck yet) and I was wondering if anyone here has access to or actually seen the CFTU whitelist? China is on my list of countries, I've done a lot of research but having this would make my job search a lot clearer, appreciate any info.

CFTU is the China Foreign Teacher Union, and I've tried emailing them, only I'm always blocked for whatever reason Confused
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D-M



Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CFTU is a joke operation in these parts, with members (often the same person under a new identity) spamming these forums with ridiculous claims, spurious links and frankly misleading information. With this being your first post ... I sincerely hope you arent one of the CFTU people starting up another spam thread.

Assuming you arent, and this is genuine .. let me assure you, using information from the CFTU to find a job is likely to be as useful as Hello Kitty phone cases are to solving the conflict in Afghanistan.

When considering China, its probably wise to consider a region first ... then look closer and closer from there. Lots of helpful posts and people on this forum can give you more specific advice if you have a region, and a teaching sector, in mind.
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manrae



Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had no idea, but now I know. I've been looking at Qingdao, Shenzhen or Chengdu.

I didn't know the CFTU was such a bad organization, seems legit

How do you guys know they're not legit?
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you looked at their website?
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manrae



Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johntpartee wrote:
Have you looked at their website?


Yes, I have. They have a blacklist posted with links and an elusive whitelist with only a snap shot of what it looks like


Look, I've already stated I'm new, I'm just looking for answers not attitude muffintop
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buffalobill12323



Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 115
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manrae wrote:
johntpartee wrote:
Have you looked at their website?


Yes, I have. They have a blacklist posted with links and an elusive whitelist with only a snap shot of what it looks like


Look, I've already stated I'm new, I'm just looking for answers not attitude muffintop


Advice: Anyone I know who is interested in, or already teaching in China, who is aware of this company agrees that it is a sham and a joke with nothing good to offer
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mw182006



Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You were wise to ask...just search for threads on this board and you'll be entertained for a good while.
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vikeologist



Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 536

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CFTU has been discussed a lot on this site, and the trouble is that there are lots of allegations about them.

-It's alleged that the entire company was started by a known fraudster.
-It's alleged that the company that owns the website is dodgy, and not upfront about its other activities. The idea that the CFTU is a group of foreign teachers doesn't seem borne out by the other activities of the parent company.
-It's fairly clear that many of the comments on the internet in support of the company were made by fake identities, and it seems logical that the CFTU are the ones behind the fake identities.

If you have time to kill, you can find details and links regarding all this on previous threads.

Now, I really don't know what the truth is, but I am fairly certain that they are not entirely what they make themselves out to be. Hey, that's not unusual in China. This country does seem to be the place to come if you want to tell a story about yourself.

Most of the links on the CFTU website regarding bad employers and recruiters are probably legit, or as legit as anything you're going to find on the web.

Also, there seems to be absolutely no actual evidence of the CFTU ever trying to extort money from anyone or cheat anyone.

I honestly don't know what the truth is. My guess is that there is one person behind it all, and he's a fantasist with too much time on his hands, who's actually provided a lot of very helpful information.

However, the phalanx of fake identities on this site were quite troll-like and (the thing that wound me up) spread (either knowingly or through ignorance) a lot of false information, so just the mention of the CFTU is likely to make us greasy spooners start frothing at the mouth.
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3231

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
actually provided a lot of very helpful information


I don't remember any.
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manrae



Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikeologist wrote:
The CFTU has been discussed a lot on this site, and the trouble is that there are lots of allegations about them.

-It's alleged that the entire company was started by a known fraudster.
-It's alleged that the company that owns the website is dodgy, and not upfront about its other activities. The idea that the CFTU is a group of foreign teachers doesn't seem borne out by the other activities of the parent company.
-It's fairly clear that many of the comments on the internet in support of the company were made by fake identities, and it seems logical that the CFTU are the ones behind the fake identities.

If you have time to kill, you can find details and links regarding all this on previous threads.

Now, I really don't know what the truth is, but I am fairly certain that they are not entirely what they make themselves out to be. Hey, that's not unusual in China. This country does seem to be the place to come if you want to tell a story about yourself.

Most of the links on the CFTU website regarding bad employers and recruiters are probably legit, or as legit as anything you're going to find on the web.

Also, there seems to be absolutely no actual evidence of the CFTU ever trying to extort money from anyone or cheat anyone.

I honestly don't know what the truth is. My guess is that there is one person behind it all, and he's a fantasist with too much time on his hands, who's actually provided a lot of very helpful information.

However, the phalanx of fake identities on this site were quite troll-like and (the thing that wound me up) spread (either knowingly or through ignorance) a lot of false information, so just the mention of the CFTU is likely to make us greasy spooners start frothing at the mouth.


See I'm unaware of what happened in the past, but this is the first time I've read such negative comments about the CFTU, but I'm not entirely sold on them considering how it's nearly next to impossible to contact them......
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vikeologist



Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 536

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johntpartee wrote:
Quote:
actually provided a lot of very helpful information


I don't remember any.


Not on here he didn't, but I think that the links on their website http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/ (one of their many websites) to reviews of employers may be helpful to people. Of course there are so many schools in China that the links are a drop in the ocean, and many of the 'reviews' and posts they like to are probably obsolete, inaccurate, biased etc.

I'd agree that there's nothing actually on the CFTU site itself which is of any value, but I think anyone thinking of coming to China could do worse than look through those links to 'bad schools'.

However, nothing beats simple googling the name and location of your school. It is staggering that anybody would ever apply to (just picking two) Kidcastle Xian or Gallop international English school.

But people don't search for things. I've told the story before of when my employer hired a National Finance Director without googling him. When I did just that, all hell let loose.

Anyway, the Op wanted a whitelist. I think the trouble with this is that things can change. I've worked for two employers in China and they were both great. I happily recommended them to people, but with both of them underlying problems have become overlying problems. It is more helpful to identify questions to ask potential employers, and talk to teachers currently at the schools. I just don't think that a whitelist would have any real long-term value.
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Banner41



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 548
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP probably has not heard back from them because they do not currently have job thus no need to use their services to help get back pay (with a healthy commission). I hope this thread dies before those trolls pop up and see an opportunity to again start spamming Dave's with made up stats and links on their website that leads to their sister sites set up in the hopes that the person who is reading it is stupid enough to believe it. It's easy to set up a website with a bunch of links claiming that that link makes them credible but when you get to the next link it's just as garbage and unreliable as the original page. I guess that's why all of those Nigerian prince scams work at times because there is a sucker born every minute.
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D-M



Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manrae wrote:
I had no idea, but now I know. I've been looking at Qingdao, Shenzhen or Chengdu.


Im not in any of the above places, but lots of board members are. It isnt a bad idea to look for forums like ShenZhen party and get an idea and feel for the place. Ditto with things like Wikipedia and YouTube.

Its also worth looking at job listings here on Daves and on a place like TEFL.com to get a feel for what kind of jobs exist in these locations, and what sort of salary, hours and packages are on offer. Consider the nature of the work too ... kindergartens, middle school and college / university work to training centres ... all have upsides and downsides. Many board members have had experience with many employers in the places you mention and are normally happy to share stories and advice. Specific questions tend to help out a lot ... 'What opportunities are there for teaching adults in SZ?' for example, is likely to lead to useful replies.

google is also your friend, but as someone has mentioned ... things can change quickly. A good school in 2010 might be awful now, and vice versa. Good luck!
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2003
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manrae wrote:
johntpartee wrote:
Have you looked at their website?


Yes, I have. They have a blacklist posted with links and an elusive whitelist with only a snap shot of what it looks like


Look, I've already stated I'm new, I'm just looking for answers not attitude muffintop


Welcome to the forums Razz
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2003
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: The CFTU whitelist, has anyone actually seen it? Reply with quote

manrae wrote:
Hi I'm new around here and I've been looking for work overseas (no luck yet) and I was wondering if anyone here has access to or actually seen the CFTU whitelist? China is on my list of countries, I've done a lot of research but having this would make my job search a lot clearer, appreciate any info.

CFTU is the China Foreign Teacher Union, and I've tried emailing them, only I'm always blocked for whatever reason Confused


One of the biggest problems with EFL in China or anywhere else for that matter is that a good employer today can become a "bad" employer tomorrow or vice-versa...
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