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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 463
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

But I have a NIP and PESEL as I worked there for a long time. Non-tax residency is a normal thing that smart people do. I have a residency for another country where my tax is paid. As an EU citizen, I have the right to live and work exactly where I want in Europe, which just happens to be Poland. I have lived in other western European countries and can assure you the whole thing is much easier in them.

Poland is a bureaucratic nightmare. Anyone thinking of staying there long-term should be aware of that.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But I have a NIP and PESEL as I worked there for a long time. Non-tax residency is a normal thing that smart people do. I have a residency for another country where my tax is paid.


I suspect that you're not quite as smart as you think, given that you've declared yourself to be resident in Poland according to the rules of registration. It's not the smartest idea to declare to the Polish authorities that you're legally resident in Poland on one hand and then try and claim that you're a non-resident on the other hand.

As I've shown countless times, you seem to be convinced that tax law in Poland is based solely upon the number of days resident in Poland. Yet, anyone with a basic understanding of Polish tax law knows that those with their 'centre of vital interests' in Poland (as judged by a faceless inspector) may find themselves judged to be tax resident regardless of days spent in Poland.

The fact that you pay tax elsewhere is neither here nor there if you're failing to even report the income to Poland. Instead of getting advice from mates, I think you ought to get advice from a qualified Polish tax lawyer who understands your situation.

Quote:
As an EU citizen, I have the right to live and work exactly where I want in Europe, which just happens to be Poland


Indeed, you do. But that same right also has obligations, such as complying with national laws, including tax law. You might have the right to live here, but by doing so, you also open yourself up to liabilities that perhaps you wouldn't have elsewhere.

Quote:
I have lived in other western European countries and can assure you the whole thing is much easier in them.


Really? Tried to rent a property in France legally recently, even as an EU citizen? Tried to understand German tax law recently? Or even tried to get an NIE in Spain?

Anyone coming to Poland long term should know that it is vital to live here as Poles live. Don't try and be cute and clever - the system (like in most European countries) doesn't reward it. Do what they expect you to do, and always verify the information provided. People are remarkably open to creative solutions to problems if you speak to them, and you can find that being good natured can go a long way. Don't try and fight against the system, because you won't win - and don't blame the system for your problems, too.

Getting a mortgage, a credit card, a car loan and all the things that you'd expect in Western Europe/North America are perfectly achievable provided you have stable long term employment. In this respect, Poland is completely normal.

Those coming here with rather unorthodox arrangements may expect difficulties.

Perhaps the real reason that "dragonpiwo" suffers so much is that he lives most of his life in a controlled environment. Poland is certainly not for those that need their hand held, which is what makes it such a fun place to live.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 463
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:34 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Temporary residency old boy. However, that isn't the credit issue.

As for tax avoidance? My Polish doctor requires cash payment, the BUPA affiliated hospital required cash payment, many places require cash payment like Biedronka and travel agents for example. Who's actually fiddling taxes?

I'm not. So Delph you are right. I should become more 'Polish'.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Temporary residency under Polish law doesn't mean temporary - it simply means "with a time restriction". It's a faulty translation, and the correct translation is something more along the lines of "Certificate of Residence for a fixed time period". By having the zameldowanie for more than 3 months, you're effectively declaring your full time residency here.

The reason that the zameldowanie is for 5 years in the first instance is that it's expected that EU citizens will apply for permanent residency after that time.

Quote:
As for tax avoidance? My Polish doctor requires cash payment, the BUPA affiliated hospital required cash payment, many places require cash payment like Biedronka and travel agents for example. Who's actually fiddling taxes?


Neither here nor there. The point is that you may have a tax liability and anyone scrutinising a mortgage application from you would pick up on this. Unlike the UK, they take it seriously here - and if you've declared yourself resident in Poland and yet don't have proof of your non-tax resident status, it's simply dodgy.

Incidentally, I've always used my card here for medical services. If someone wanted cash only, I'd laugh at them and find another doctor. My local hospital accepts cards, incidentally.

At the end of the day, your problems are caused by you having rather odd arrangements. It's not normal in Poland for people to declare residency here, yet to not declare any income to the tax office. You'll find that the vast majority of people on the fiddle will have a perfectly acceptable source of primary income, whereas your source of income appears to be unstable at best. And you wonder why they won't give you any credit?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 463
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Well for anyone who cares-

1-The karta pobytu is valid for 5 years
2-If you register at an address for over 3 months you can get a PESEL and NIP number. You can get a Polish friend to do this.
3-If you want a mortgage and don't work in Poland, you will need the above plus your salary transferred there from wherever, salary slips and some sort of banking history.
4-You may need a letter from your overseas bank saying you've got no debts and a copy of your work contract. You may also need a letter saying where you pay tax. All this paperwork needs to have a similar date on it. Some banks say within a month others more.

It's a long, frustrating route, especially building the banking history once you've got pissed off with one bank and changed. The rest is just a lot easier if you are there all the time. Different banks will ask for different things. Some simply look at you and say 'nie, you don't earn in Poland' (PKO) or 'nie, you don't have the old karta with the photo' (Millenium) or 'nie, you don't pay tax here.' (WBK), who I'd had an account with for 15 years.

Forget a decent credit card with a good limit. Two of my friends are extremely rich and can't get one having lived there for about 15 years each. My Polish missus got one in 24 hours.

I've had a stable salary from the same big oil company for longer than you've been in Poland Delph. I haven't broken any tax laws anywhere. There's naff all dodgy about what I'm doing.

And Swajzarska was the hospital in question. The military hospital (BUPA) was the other. Incientally, when I had a potentially life threatening flare up of a chronic illness (not caused by hell raising), I also got charged cash then in Przybyszewskiego...nice use of the EHA rules. Our doctor is excellent.

Everybody's on the fiddle in Poland from the native speakers who don't declare income to the cash only shops. Get off your high horse. I'm not on the fiddle and pay taxes at source. Like my Polish colleagues here, I don't have to pay tax. Get over it.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
1-The karta pobytu is valid for 5 years


Legally, it's not a Karta Pobytu, nor is it restricted to five years. The zameldowanie (not the same thing) has a 5 year limit, but the Certificate of Residence of an EU citizen is for an indefinite period.

Quote:
2-If you register at an address for over 3 months you can get a PESEL and NIP number. You can get a Polish friend to do this.


No need for a NIP for a private citizen. The PESEL suffices.

Quote:
Forget a decent credit card with a good limit. Two of my friends are extremely rich and can't get one having lived there for about 15 years each. My Polish missus got one in 24 hours.


Credit cards are easily obtainable for those who have a normal umowa o prace in Poland. I should know, I have one.

Quote:
I've had a stable salary from the same big oil company for longer than you've been in Poland Delph. I haven't broken any tax laws anywhere. There's naff all dodgy about what I'm doing.


Funny how you won't ask the tax office for a legally binding opinion on that matter though, isn't it? There's certainly considerable doubt as to whether you'd qualify for your centre of vital interests being abroad, particularly as you've been trying to get a mortgage here and so on.

Quote:
And Swajzarska was the hospital in question. The military hospital (BUPA) was the other. Incientally, when I had a potentially life threatening flare up of a chronic illness (not caused by hell raising), I also got charged cash then in Przybyszewskiego...nice use of the EHA rules. Our doctor is excellent.


You mean the public hospital in os. Rusa? Wasn't aware there was a private hospital there.

As for EHA rules, are you referring to the EHIC? In that case, a close look at the rules shows that only emergency care is covered. Anything deemed optional is outside of it.

Quote:
Everybody's on the fiddle in Poland from the native speakers who don't declare income to the cash only shops. Get off your high horse. I'm not on the fiddle and pay taxes at source. Like my Polish colleagues here, I don't have to pay tax. Get over it.


Don't tell me this, why not tell the tax office this? All your posturing about your earnings and tax position is meaningless - what matters is that the tax office have declared you non-resident. Just bear in mind that if they investigate you and find you liable, the standard punishment is 100% of unpaid tax, plus the unpaid tax itself. In your case, that means they'll want 64% of your earnings.
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