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Pre-MA teaching experience really not valued?
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SENTINEL33



Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 112
Location: Bahrain

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
She has a BA and an MA and an MBA.



Well yes, VS. Again, I agree with you up to a point. But one can't ignore the following from Forbes:

1. According to the latest figures from Forbes, the average student debt for a grad with a BA/BS nationwide is $27,000.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/01/29/more-evidence-on-the-student-debt-crisis-average-grads-loan-jumps-to-27000/

True, our OP has, in addition, an MA and MBA......but the MA couldn't have taken more than 2 years to get and the MBA was online so supposedly, she was working (or should have been).

Bottom line: her MA and MBA couldn't realistically have cost the $63.000 that would bring her debt up to $90 thou she says she's in hock for.

I am not "leaning on" the OP - and I trust she won't take it that way - but really, the jaw-dropping $90 is really inexcusable. $90,000 is light years away from $27,000. She could easily have cut that in half during her college career with just the tiniest bit of planning.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12294
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sentinel33

Well, all debt (including credit card debt) is higher:

"Class of 2013 grads average $35,200 in total debt "

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/17/pf/college/student-debt/

"As of Quarter 1 in 2012, the average student loan balance for all age groups is $24,301. About one-quarter of borrowers owe more than $28,000; 10% of borrowers owe more than $54,000; 3% owe more than $100,000; and less than 1%, or 167,000 people, owe more than $200,000."

http://www.asa.org/policy/resources/stats/

10% is about 2 million students - and that's only the student loans, no credit card or other debt figured in,

Regards,
John
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 15854
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that is $35200 for one degree...

Our system sucks... it requires planning skills that not everyone has at 18 years of age.

VS
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ChloeJoe



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol, I'm starting to get a better picture concerning what a certain poster is like. And actually, I do take the comments to be 'leaning on' and I'm still stinging a little.

I really don't think I need to in this forum, but just a bit about my 'planning.' I chose my BA based on what I wanted to do post-graduation. It was middle-of-the-road cost wise but the absolute best program for what I was interested in. I'm a first-generation college grad with little financial help from the parents. The community college thing is laughable, as it's just not the same thing. BA tuition increased noticeably every year. I never owned a car until I was twenty-one (a '95 Honda). I've still never owned an iPhone. I worked multiple jobs all throughout by riding my bike and taking the bus. I chose the cheapest MA program I could that still promised to be what I needed. BA- 4 years; MA- 2 years. Vast majority of debt from BA. The MBA choice came from the thought of getting it done while I'm young and because costs go up each year. Finally, I have an IRA that I contribute to as I can.

Yes, it's a lot of debt (and golly do I regret throwing that number to the jaws of the interwebs), but it has helped get me to where I am right now, and I don't regret a single dollar of it.

My interest in the ME is not a panic move- I've always been interested in going there. If I seemed flippant about achieving the money, it was in my continual effort to be be pleasant. I'm applying to lots of other places as well. I know this will be a long slog but I'm up for it, detractors be damned.

I've already said too much; so let me end with this- yes, the vast majority of my debt is from my BA. So, if it is your intention, Certain Poster, to skewer a girl based on her choice of college as an 18-year-old (a choice she still doesn't regret), then you're a right fine chappy, you are. Lol.
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 643
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any country (including my own - the UK) which saddles it's young people with such debts isn't worth living in. Don't pay, just leave and never go back.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12294
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear MuscatGary,

"Any country (including my own - the UK) which saddles it's young people with such debts isn't worth living in. Don't pay, just leave and never go back."

Never's a long time. Since you're giving that advice, can I assume that's what you have done? Well, if so, I certainly hope it works out for you. But your circumstances are likely to be different, perhaps very different, from the OP's or anyone else's.

What has worked (so far) for you - kind of burning your bridges in front of you - just might not work for everyone else.

Regards,
John
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12085
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Never" ? I decided in my 20s that I would never live in my native land again. I retired and where am I ? In Bonnie Scotland !
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 560
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
"Never" ? I decided in my 20s that I would never live in my native land again. I retired and where am I ? In Bonnie Scotland !


Why would you, though, when you could have retired in sunny Thailand, Indonesia or Malaysia?

After swearing never to retire in Scotland, what changed your mind?
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oxi



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 333
Location: elsewhere

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar Strength wrote:
scot47 wrote:
"Never" ? I decided in my 20s that I would never live in my native land again. I retired and where am I ? In Bonnie Scotland !


Why would you, though, when you could have retired in sunny Thailand, Indonesia or Malaysia?

After swearing never to retire in Scotland, what changed your mind?


They've got palm trees in Rothesay, y'know! Must be warm
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12085
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Health Care. The "Socialised Medicine" that is anathema to free-born Murkans !
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ttxor1



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
It is not that pre-MA experience is ignored completely. It may help you get a job, but if an advertised positions says MA + 2 or 3 years of experience, they mean AFTER the MA. Will they hire you? Maybe or maybe not. The more desirable the job, the less likely they will accept the pre MA stuff. (because there will be more competition that CAN meet the requirement)

But your pay will be lower than someone who meets the criteria exactly.


So, send out applications and see what happens. Come back and check out the employers that make any offers.

VS


all of my experience (4 years) is pre-MA, and I was offered a base salary of around $3000/month with a major government university
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 15854
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttxor1 wrote:
veiledsentiments wrote:
But your pay will be lower than someone who meets the criteria exactly.

So, send out applications and see what happens. Come back and check out the employers that make any offers.

VS


all of my experience (4 years) is pre-MA, and I was offered a base salary of around $3000/month with a major government university

Exactly... that certainly wouldn't qualify as the BIG BUCKS that many assume are paid in Saudi.

I have had friends in the last few years whose first job post MA was $4-5500 (plus all the usual Gulf benefits) in the UAE. Much depends on what exactly the pre MA experience entailed as relates to the new job.

VS
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 3585
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
ttxor1 wrote:
all of my experience (4 years) is pre-MA, and I was offered a base salary of around $3000/month with a major government university

Exactly... that certainly wouldn't qualify as the BIG BUCKS that many assume are paid in Saudi.

I have had friends in the last few years whose first job post MA was $4-5500 (plus all the usual Gulf benefits) in the UAE. Much depends on what exactly the pre MA experience entailed as relates to the new job.

Not only that, but salary is based on written verification of work history/experience via an official employment verification letter or certificate of employment from each previous employer.
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dustdevil



Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 3
Location: Tragic Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cultofpersonality wrote:
She's gotta start from somewhere, lol

90,000 dollars...Americans really have to spend a lot on education! I thought we had it bad in the UK...obviously not!

Some places care about pre-MA experience and some don't.


It's not really that simple. I went through the American system with a BA and two master's degrees all for free--no loans, only government grants and graduate assistantships (where you teach a few hours a week of pre-univ. ESL or else assist with research) and get your degree for free in return. Prior to enrolling in undergraduate college I had been paid low enough in my bank job that I was eligible for a full award of federal and state grants.

With all due respect to the poster, I don't understand those who don't seek out the assistantships. At my graduate university, such assitantships were actually a required part of the program, regardless of prior income or assets. There may be fewer of such programs available these days, I'm not sure, but there must still be some available. In fact I was offered a full assistantship for an Master of Fine Arts in writing (a terminal degree) a few years ago, but I took an EFL job instead.
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DB65



Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChloeJoe,

Disregard the cheap flak---with $90K in debt, you are wise to want to come work in Saudi. You can make the same or better salary in the more desirable Gulf countries like UAE and Qatar, but your lack of post-MA experience would put you at a disadvantage, as well as the simple fact that those are the countries that everyone (esp. female teachers) would like to work in, so you'd face much stiffer competition.

With an entry-level position at a place like PNU, you'd probably be making around $3-4K/month. Since you are frugal, you can expect to save as much as 90% of that, tax free. That means you could be debt free within 3 years, as opposed to paying interest on those loans for 20 years like other graduates who are too lazy or scared to consider working in the Middle East.

Good luck!

PS. I should add that as a single woman in Saudi, with a little bit of networking you will have all sorts of social opportunities in the expat community simply due to the dearth of western women there, which would make your time there much more enjoyable than you might assume.
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