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Future Benefits of/Need for Masters Degree in China
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 355

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get it. Are some people getting an MA TESOL along with a US teaching certification? Typically you get a B.Ed and a teacher's cert and a Master's in your subject area, or maybe you just get a non-B.Ed bachelor's and a M.Ed along with your teaching cert, or so I had heard.

Where do you require a US teaching cert to teach ESL (MA TESOL + cert)? Is that program for teaching ESL at US schools to say immigrants or Spanish speaking Hispanics who don't know English or something?
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Shroob



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyeur wrote:
I don't get it. Are some people getting an MA TESOL along with a US teaching certification? Typically you get a B.Ed and a teacher's cert and a Master's in your subject area, or maybe you just get a non-B.Ed bachelor's and a M.Ed along with your teaching cert, or so I had heard.

Where do you require a US teaching cert to teach ESL (MA TESOL + cert)? Is that program for teaching ESL at US schools to say immigrants or Spanish speaking Hispanics who don't know English or something?


Some MAs offer teacher certification upon completion, or so I believe. It's not such a thing in the UK but I believe it is in the U.S.
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 355

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm aware that you can get MAs in subject courses (Chem, Math, English (for English speakers like English Lit, etc.)), but I was unaware you could get an MA TESOL with teachers cert--or at least that this would be some kind of standard offer--obviously one could self-engineer that.

It's unclear to me why one would want the two things together since rarely does one teach ESL in a US school, unless of course I am underestimating the need for ESL teaching to immigrants and non-English speakers in say California public schools etc. And I wasn't aware that you would need to be a fully licensed teacher to teach ESL at a US public school, but I can see that being true.
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1606

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shroob wrote:
Voyeur wrote:
I don't get it. Are some people getting an MA TESOL along with a US teaching certification? Typically you get a B.Ed and a teacher's cert and a Master's in your subject area, or maybe you just get a non-B.Ed bachelor's and a M.Ed along with your teaching cert, or so I had heard.

Where do you require a US teaching cert to teach ESL (MA TESOL + cert)? Is that program for teaching ESL at US schools to say immigrants or Spanish speaking Hispanics who don't know English or something?


Some MAs offer teacher certification upon completion, or so I believe. It's not such a thing in the UK but I believe it is in the U.S.


In the U.S., you can take courses to get you ready to take the Praxis test, the test one takes in order to become certified.
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1606

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyeur wrote:
I'm aware that you can get MAs in subject courses (Chem, Math, English (for English speakers like English Lit, etc.)), but I was unaware you could get an MA TESOL with teachers cert--or at least that this would be some kind of standard offer--obviously one could self-engineer that.

It's unclear to me why one would want the two things together since rarely does one teach ESL in a US school, unless of course I am underestimating the need for ESL teaching to immigrants and non-English speakers in say California public schools etc. And I wasn't aware that you would need to be a fully licensed teacher to teach ESL at a US public school, but I can see that being true.


States that have experienced a large influx of Hispanic immigrants now employ ESL teachers. The program is sort of a rehash of the bi-lingual, bi-cultural disaster that crashed and burned in California (and New York, I believe). Hopefully, the program will work. The previous program was, basically a scam to get federal money. Kids were going K-12 and graduating with little ability to speak English. California shot it down in the late '90's, and I believe New York State followed with a greatly modified program.


Last edited by Bud Powell on Tue May 20, 2014 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 355

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting info. on what seems to be a bit of a hybrid career path, i.e. MA TESOL and a teaching cert. It does seem like this combo is geared towards a fairly specific path: teaching ESL in one of the established English-speaking countries. Typically, if you want to teach overseas you won't require that combination as the MA TESOL tends to take you towards the universities (for which a teaching cert is not required, or even necessarily helpful) or towards some kind of DOS position (which again doesn't really require a teaching cert).
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud Powell wrote:
States that have experienced a large influx of Hispanic immigrants now employ ESL teachers. The program is sort of a rehash of the bi-lingual, bi-cultural disaster that crashed and burned in California (and New York, I believe). Hopefully, the program will work. Pe previous program was, basically a scam to get federal money. Kids were going K-12 and graduating with little ability to speak English. California shot it down in the late '90's, and I believe New York State followed with a greatly modified program.


This. When I graduated from my program I received an M.A. from TESOL and then completed requirements for a New York State K-12 ESL teaching license--it was specifically set up for teaching ESL in the New York City Department of Education. As Bud mentioned, ESL in huge in New York City, hence, Voyeur's words:

Voyeur wrote:
It does seem like this combo is geared towards a fairly specific path


I didn't want to stay in the system but I still walked away with the M.A. in TESOL which has been very useful in other habitats. I'm using it for the TEFL side of things at the moment.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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Didah



Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 63
Location: Planet Tralfamador.... and so it goes

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

There are also bridge programs at the high school level to bring up the Chinese students' academic English to go on and study at high schools or colleges in North America, UK or Australia. Many of these programs also offer an AP or IB tract. Some even have U.S. accreditation.

Many of these programs are now aligning themselves with private schools in the Untied States to offer a dual high school diploma. In these programs, students improve their language skills as well as take other courses through English-medium instruction.

As pointed out in an earlier post, it is true that the Chinese high school bridge programs are not as demanding for teachers as an international school where they follow the U.S. common core curriculum and have mostly students from expat families working for foreign capital companies or diplomats.

Like fat_chris, I did both the master's degree and teaching credential. I find teaching far more enjoyable and rewarding overseas in most all the places that I have been with the major exception of the tragic kingdom.

Good luck
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 355

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting info. I take it the teacher's cert is what is absolutely required for these bridge programs, with a Masters (not necessarily in TESOL I take it) making you even more attractive.

Can one actually teach ESL in these bridge programs, or do you teach content in English? (Or some kind of combination-- perhaps officially content, but ESL as needed to shore up language weaknesses.)

I'm interested in these 'hybrid' cases which seem to call into question the neat division between the teacher's certification track and the ESL track, the former requiring a teacher's cert and the latter benefiting from a MA TESOL.
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Shroob



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyeur wrote:
Interesting info. I take it the teacher's cert is what is absolutely required for these bridge programs, with a Masters (not necessarily in TESOL I take it) making you even more attractive.

Can one actually teach ESL in these bridge programs, or do you teach content in English? (Or some kind of combination-- perhaps officially content, but ESL as needed to shore up language weaknesses.)

I'm interested in these 'hybrid' cases which seem to call into question the neat division between the teacher's certification track and the ESL track, the former requiring a teacher's cert and the latter benefiting from a MA TESOL.


I used to teach at a college (in the British sense of the word) in the UK which enrolled international students. They would received subject classes, from qualified teachers, and also English classes. To teach the English classes you needed a minimum of a CELTA and experience in the right areas. I say minimum as I only got the job though word of mouth and they needed someone desperately, I was given a good reference by an existing member of staff and managed to get my foot in the door. Which I am very grateful for.
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Didah



Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 63
Location: Planet Tralfamador.... and so it goes

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

The high end programs require a teaching credential even to teach ESL to bring students up to academic English. Then, students move on to core English Language Arts classes some in an AP or IB tract. Other classes are taught in English medium instruction. In the dual diploma programs, students also take math, science and Chinese in Chinese.

There are a couple of bridge programs that I saw on the eslcafe job board that did not require a teaching credential. One is from a company called Earlybirds. They seem to pay better than the university with a fairly light workload. The other program is a joint program with Aston and a private school in San Diego called Balboa School. If you are interested in bridge programs, these would be worth looking into to get your feet in the door.

I have seen a dramatic increase in these English bridge programs in China. Their is a high demand for certified teachers for these programs. I am also seeing some leeway with the ESL components. There are just not enough credentialed or certified high school teachers for the student demand. In the joint venture programs with private schools in the US, UK, Canada and Australia, a teaching license may not be necessary. I personally think for the next decade, this is where the ESL/English teaching growth will be in China -- as long as the standards for teachers are kept high and there is more demand for teachers in this field than there are teachers to fill the slots, the money should remain competitive.
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Omniscientfool



Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Zhangye, Gansu

PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MA in Int'l Affairs (i.e. a non-related MA) gets me a whopping 500 yuan extra per month. Neither it nor Peace Corps training (both as a trainee and trainer) nor being fluent in Chinese substituted for a measly TESOL certification at one particular small, Shanghai uni. Pretty annoying, but I guess it speaks well for the rising level of professionalism in PRC TEFL.
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