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Hourly rates: How much lower can they go?
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Stuka



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisLV wrote:
Given the choice between INTO and a proper university, I would avoid INTO like the plague, and yes, most of that stems from the practices at INTO that are endemic to private-sector EFL operations.


But by giving your labour to a sloppy outfit like INTO, you are allowing them to exploit teachers. If good teachers withheld their labour and gave it to other employers who paid a respectable wage, INTO would be forced to increase their appallingly low salaries . . . or find cheap foreign teachers willing to work for peanuts.
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ChrisLV



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuka wrote:


If good teachers withheld their labour and gave it to other employers who paid a respectable wage, INTO would be forced to increase their appallingly low salaries . . . or find cheap foreign teachers willing to work for peanuts


I think those happen already to some extent.

Before I landed a full-time contract at a proper uni, I considered a position with INTO. But as soon as I could reasonably withhold my labour from INTO without bankrupting my family (i.e. once I had an offer from a genuine uni), I did so. And even if I had had to take the position at INTO, I would almost certainly have left (thus withholding my labour) as soon as I had an offer from a real uni. And in this case, I think that good teachers withholding their labour has made a difference: INTO pay much more than private-sector EAP providers like Kaplan, and don't make insane demands with regard to teaching hours, though I agree that the INTO positions are still exploitative.

I've seen things go the other way, though. During a year that I couldn't commute to London, I worked for EF University Preparation (similar to Kaplan, etc.). But as soon as my situation changed, I once again withheld my labour. In this case, I don't think withholding my labour made a whiff of difference. EF makes its money as a marketing operation, not a teaching one, and they are more than capable of carrying out their normal business operations without a single good teacher. They take the cheap teachers route.

I think the foreigness issue is complicated. At proper unis, it's irrelevant: foreigners are hired only if they have the right qualifications, experience and level of English in the relevant area (e.g. writing), so there's little difference between native and non-native speaking teachers. At private-sector operations, in contrast, foreigners without sufficient English are often hired, and--yes--frequently the reason is that they'll accept very low wages.
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Stuka



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisLV wrote:
But as soon as I could reasonably withhold my labour from INTO without bankrupting my family (i.e. once I had an offer from a genuine uni), I did so.


Good on you, Chris. I hope every other sucker working for INTO University Partnerships will follow your lead.
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crewmeal1



Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The local job centre in Birmingham are offering ESOL teachers who are fully qualified with appropriate degrees and experience to work 'somewhere in the city' for the exhorbitant rate of £6 per hour rising to £10 after 3 months.
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Stuka



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crewmeal1 wrote:
The local job centre in Birmingham are offering ESOL teachers who are fully qualified with appropriate degrees and experience to work 'somewhere in the city' for the exhorbitant rate of £6 per hour rising to £10 after 3 months.


This doesn't surprise me in the least. JobCentre Plus(JSP) will soon be giving you a deadline to take these jobs and stopping your benefits if you don't. It's a 'reasonable' way to get people off the dole and back out to work so that this fascist Cameron government can do 3 things:
1. Reduce expenditure on welfare;
2. Take a cut of the lowly-paid tefler's salary in the form of taxation;
3. Convince an anxious British public that the economy is getting itself back on it's feet and picking up steam.


As an aside, I've heard from friends of mine who are currently out of work and claiming JSA, that they're now being asking to do all their job hunting online so that JCP can "monitor what they are doing". You can see where all this is heading, right?
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sprightly



Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 129
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
stuka wrote :

Quote:
They are paying 29,131 per annum...They'd be lucky to get an applicant with a CSE in English for that rate let alone anyone qualified


The sad fact is that they will probably be swamped with applicants.

Let's just put this into perspective. A junior hospital doctor in year 1, working on average 56 hours per week or up to 72 hours on call, often in life and death situations, earns 22,412 GB pounds per annum. By year 2, a junior doctor can get 27,788 GB pounds, and by year 3, when undergoing specialist training, hits the dizzy heights of 29,705 GB pounds.

I know because my son is a junior doctor in London.


this is what i meant in my 'what is a good job' post.
how much should a teacher earn? what do you list as a 'good' job? i see a lot of bitching about offers and no set standard in reply.

yes, many of us have an MA and therefore feel we deserve a nice pay packet and benefits. do we know how many of us are actually in the uk with the same quals? is anyone actually offering golden jobs?

i know of an a-level college offering 27K+ for a full-time teacher. on the plus side, it includes 6 wks hols, and the median income for a family in the uk is 20k/pa, so this puts you up ahead of that. on the downside, the contract is for 28 contact hours/wk.
they are swamped with applicants, who have done nothing but kindergartens in china or conversation in london. they are asking for DELTA/MA and are the best-paying gig in town (even beating out a good university) but find it very difficult to get experienced teachers.

i worked for a good school in Kent, they advertised for a decent job as head of EFL--100 applicants, of the 40 that were actually teachers, maybe 10 had anything like proper qualifications or experience. only 3 were short-listed--they wanted 5.

where are the qualified efl people?

it's a bit difficult to work out the state sector equivalent of an MA-tesol, but assuming that would put one into the 'upper pay range' then we can assume a starting salary of 34.5k/pa outside london, but with a longer school year and more responsibilities. likely a better pension plan and more insurance.

more money? yes. easier job? no. private schools generally offer smaller classes (and thus less admin) and more holidays, along with less paperwork.


so yes, i would really like to know what all the naysayers want in a job offer--until we know what is considered 'good' there's no way to evaluate whether we agree with your verdict on 'bad.'
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Stuka



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sprightly wrote:
. . where are the qualified efl people?


Gone overseas where there are full-time jobs and a better quality of life. Haven't you heard about the great British brain drain?
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Kipling



Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: ...Ah Mrs K peel me a grape!!!....and have one yourself!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: The Evil Empire Reply with quote

English Language Teacher & Social Programme Coordinator
Liverpool
Kaplan International

£18,500 per annum pro rata fixed term - 6 month contract

Which equals 9250/26 weeks = 356/40 = 8.9 pounds per hour
this is what you are required to do

Main responsibilities and functions

Teaching up to 21 hours per week
Planning and preparing lessons in accordance with the standards outlined in the KIE Teaching Standards
Assigning homework and marking assignments
Assisting in the testing and placement (as needed) of new and existing students
Conducting regular tutorials
Promoting independent learning via needs analysis, tutorials, support and reports
Attending all compulsory training sessions and actively participating in any training offered
Developing and delivering a professional, high quality social programme for international students
Maintaining customer interest in the programme through researching and incorporating appropriate and engaging activities
Providing students with comprehensive information about the event listings, selling tickets and giving them the opportunity to develop a closer rapport with the social staff
Communicating with students both on a face to face basis and through social media channels
Actively leading and/or organising staffing for all events
Researching, creating and developing good working partnerships with tour operators and venues in the local city and in the UK, constantly reviewing and evaluating the range of offerings and suppliers for quality of service and value for money
Reporting on activities, costs (including staff resources), profit margins, student uptake, post activity analysis, marketing/promo activity and student feedback.



........" And if you have any spare time you can stick a broom up your arse and sweep the floor" as my dear old Dad (God bless him) used to say


Mr K Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12502
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hyman Kaplan is running a school already !
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NilSatis82



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just over £16 an hour to lecture in TESOL at a university. Christ on a bike, things must be really bad.

www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AIV224/hourly-paid-lecturer-in-tesol/
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12502
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The next step is to recruit people to do the teaching as "interns" without pay.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9649
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The next step is to recruit people to do the teaching as "interns" without pay.



That's already becoming the norm in at least one major Canadian city. "Come serve your internship on our (highly lucrative) summer school and we will then consider giving you a paying (peanuts) job in September."

Disgraceful.
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PC Parrot



Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 400
Location: Moral Police Station

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the only pay you get is for the hours spent teaching, it's a shocker.

Salford University are basically saying:

'Come, study with us an MA TESOL ... (a qualification we consider to be worthless)'
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Stuka



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NilSatis82 wrote:
Just over £16 an hour to lecture in TESOL at a university. Christ on a bike, things must be really bad.

www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AIV224/hourly-paid-lecturer-in-tesol/


What do you expect from a university that partners itself with a corrupt for-profit outfit like INTO University Partnerships. These cowboys are infamous for paying their staff peanuts. Any university that partners with this Mickey Mouse operation is doomed to lose its reputation and disappear from the academic landscape . . . and that's no bad thing.

http://www.intohigher.com/uk/en-gb/our-centres/into-london/studying/progression-universities/university-of-salford-manchester.aspx
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12502
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose they could go farther than getting you to do it for free as an "intern". They could charge you for the experience and call it an "indentured apprenticeship".

Maybe £1000 plus VAT for 100 hours ? And at the same time they charge the students, so together, a nice little earner.
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