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Curbs on alcohol
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12739
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear MuscatGary,

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a proselytizer for AA. Oh, when I first gave up drinking in 2002, I joined an online group, and when I got back to the States, I attended meetings for a couple of years. But then, I stopped going, and, in the almost ten years since then, I haven't imbibed.

So, maybe not everyone NEEDS AA. In fact, there are some alternatives:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-horvath-phd/addiction-treatment_b_1663494.html

However, in my opinion, AA can and does work for many - and it by no means has to induce any kind of "quasi-religious superstition addiction."

Oh, I imagine it CAN induce it - in some. But in all my time in AA, I can't recall a single instance of any individual who had acquired such a mental state.

You also mention "People with addictive personalities . . . " but there seems to be a growing body of opinion and research that makes a good argument that such a "personality type" doesn't really exist:

"The truth is, most of the personality traits mentioned as part of the addictive personality are human personality traits used by humans (not just addicts) when confronted either without invitation or by someone who has not established rapport. It ought to be unethical for a client to be cursed at, threatened, or manipulated in the name of addictions treatment. A client's recovery is dependent on a skilled empathic counselor."

http://www.addictioncts.com/blog/2013/05/04/The-Myth-of-the-Addictive-Personality.aspx

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/socialscience/2013/03/addictive-personality-myth-or-reality.html

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-heart-addiction/201105/the-myth-impulsiveness-in-addiction

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09595238480000131?journalCode=cdar

May I ask how you arrived at your conclusion?

Regards,
John
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 832
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
May I ask how you arrived at your conclusion?


Bachelors degree in Psychology, two years working at a Regional psychiatric unit including 6 months on the alcohol treatment unit and 6 months on the drug rehab unit. 2 years of my psychology related phd completed so far... I got sick and tired of the revolving door syndrome in alcohol and drugs rehab units, the same people come in, get clean, go out, start again, come in......

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00223980.1987.9712681

http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=HL2UIyBiPmAC&oi=fnd&pg=PR9&dq=addictive+personality&ots=PoKM1v1zVR&sig=YypmXBgCwOzLSwaUXPtcX-YJujk#v=onepage&q=addictive%20personality&f=false

I'm actually more interested in the (mainly negative) effects of recreational drugs on memory and I include alcohol and cigarettes in this category.

btw 7 out of the 12 steps refer to god, prayer, spirituality etc...and it's roots were in the Christian Oxford Group movement.

Gary
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 832
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fairly balanced blog about the proposed changes on Muscat Muttering - http://www.muscatmutterings.com/2014/06/storm-coming-booze-on-brink-ba-lost-my.html

Some of the comments are a tad immoderate though....
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globebot



Joined: 20 Sep 2013
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply Reply with quote

As a young man living in the ME, I found some redeeming qualities in these denizens of the desert. When I returned in middle age, I found absolutely nothing. A culture of entitlement rife with corruption and wasta has turned them into hyenas bent on satisfying their worst carnal desires. Alcohol is the least of their problems. Drugs are pervasive throughout the ME, with much worse consequences. It's the only cure for indolent and meaningless lives. There's a good reason the region is in a state of turmoil with extremism in the ascent. Many more heads are waiting to roll I am afraid, and it will be their own.
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 540
Location: Salalah, Oman

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Curbs on alcohol Reply with quote

A Majils Al Shura member wrote:


About whether it will have an impact on tourism, the Majlis Al Shura member feels that "there will not be any significant impact on tourism because tourists mainly come to experience the country."


Not sure if I agree with this and that's not because I think that the tourists that come to Oman are booze hounds who need to get blitzed every night. Rather, greater restrictions or a blanket ban on alcohol, I believe, could damage Oman's reputation as a comparatively liberal, tolerant Gulf state and therefore its appeal as a tourist destination. Indeed, Saudi Arabia apparently has some superb scuba diving and beaches, but tourists aren't exactly queuing up in their droves to try and see them and I would guess that's because Saudi's reputation precedes it. Although I'm a very keen diver I have no interest in being so restricted within such an intolerant environment whilst on holidays and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 142
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no tourism in Saudi-other than Muslims visiting Mecca for Umroh and Haj.........
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12739
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Muscat Gary,

"One of the problems with that, especially in the past several years, is that atheists and agnostics who need a way to recover from alcoholism either don’t join or feel excluded from local AA groups that push religion on them. (They may be unaware of secular alternatives that are out there or simply don’t have any of those groups in their areas.)"

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/03/21/an-increasing-number-of-atheist-and-agnostic-alcoholics-anonymous-groups-are-altering-the-twelve-steps/

http://www.sossobriety.org/home.html

http://weagnostics.com/agnostic-steps.html

It's my belief that, after the age of 7 or so, people don't change. Your "personality" or character or whatever you want to call it has little, if any, "wiggle-room."

But behavior can change. I don't that how that can be accomplished will be the same for everyone, not at all. Each addicted individual needs to find what works best for him/her.

Regards,
John
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 4319
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Curbs on alcohol Reply with quote

1st Sgt Welsh wrote:
Although I'm a very keen diver I have no interest in being so restricted within such an intolerant environment whilst on holidays and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.

Consider beautiful Socotra Island, Yemen. You'll feel like you're on another planet (http://www.210countries.com/destinations/off-the-beaten-path/socotra/).
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 540
Location: Salalah, Oman

PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks nomad soul. Something to bear in mind.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 142
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can just see some backpacker planks making their way to Yemen with their surf boards and diving gear.....they will most certainly feel like they are on 'another planet' once they are held captive.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 4319
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tazz wrote:
I can just see some backpacker planks making their way to Yemen with their surf boards and diving gear.....they will most certainly feel like they are on 'another planet' once they are held captive.

It's more like being "captivated" by the island's strange beauty. Seriously, if you'd done a bit of research before posting, you would have learned that Socotra is an island in the Indian Ocean, about 200 miles off the coast of Yemen. It's not touched by the socio-political issues experienced on the mainland.

Anyway, not to move away from the topic of drinking...
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 832
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Tazz wrote:
I can just see some backpacker planks making their way to Yemen with their surf boards and diving gear.....they will most certainly feel like they are on 'another planet' once they are held captive.

It's more like being "captivated" by the island's strange beauty. Seriously, if you'd done a bit of research before posting, you would have learned that Socotra is an island in the Indian Ocean, about 200 miles off the coast of Yemen. It's not touched by the socio-political issues experienced on the mainland.

Anyway, not to move away from the topic of drinking...


Don't surf and slurp though...
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 142
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desolate looking place....the link contains very little information of any use 'if' anybody was planning a trip there-for example, it states that visitors need to bring some cash because there are no ATM's on the island and yet fails to state what currency is used.........anyway, back to the drinking!
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caliph



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Iceland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tours of SA for non-muslims:

http://www.amazingtours.info/

http://sauditourism.sa/en/Pages/default.aspx

http://sauditourism.sa/en/Plan/TourOperators/Pages/default.aspx
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CANDLES



Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 453
Location: Wandering aimlessly.....

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They can do as many pretty pictures as possible for Farasan Islands, but will not succeed. It just has not been developed enough! Crying or Very sad I mean scraggy bushes and golden sand ...???? does not make 'Paradise'....
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