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scottie1113
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Gdansk
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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To Delph-what he said. +1  |
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Moonshadow_51
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: ANY |
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People on this thread sure are pushy. And negative. And unprofessional. I tend to think your students are getting the brunt of the bad attitude in the classroom, which is on track with the thrust of this thread.
The thread was about the language school's manner of interviewing. I attempted to explain that this school is interested in professionals who project some sophistication. By sophistication, I mean social skills.
If a teacher can't project a positive attitude at an initial interview, and is looking after his/her personal interests from the get-go, then that individual is not a good match for a school with a positive profile.
And if s/he treats others around as ranked competition, the company isn't going to want that candidate back for a second round of interviews.
People post a question about a school at Dave's ESL Cafe, and nothing but boys' club bar talk bullying follows.
No facts have been offered about Academy of New York by anyone other than me, and all responses to me have been contests attempting one-upmanship.
The moderators ought to do a better job on these forums. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: ANY |
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| Moonshadow_51 wrote: |
| People on this thread sure are pushy. And negative. And unprofessional. I tend to think your students are getting the brunt of the bad attitude in the classroom, which is on track with the thrust of this thread. |
Or they have a grasp of Poland and know that in Poland, a flashy image is usually hand in hand with dodgy business practices. On the other hand, you don't actually have any experience of Poland. People like Master Shake know ANY and know how they operate - and they don't have a good opinion.
| Quote: |
| The thread was about the language school's manner of interviewing. I attempted to explain that this school is interested in professionals who project some sophistication. By sophistication, I mean social skills. |
It seems that you've been fed plenty of nonsense by them. Those of us actually in Poland know that the relevant questions are - what kind of contract and how much money. Everything else? Irrelevant.
| Quote: |
| If a teacher can't project a positive attitude at an initial interview, and is looking after his/her personal interests from the get-go, then that individual is not a good match for a school with a positive profile. |
A positive profile? We've already heard from someone on the ground that ANY is notorious for cutting hours from teachers if they don't like them. That's not professional or positive in the slightest.
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| And if s/he treats others around as ranked competition, the company isn't going to want that candidate back for a second round of interviews. |
I didn't see any example of the candidate treating others as competition. In fact, the candidate wanted facts, so they could ascertain whether it was worth their time to continue with the recruitment process.
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People post a question about a school at Dave's ESL Cafe, and nothing but boys' club bar talk bullying follows.
No facts have been offered about Academy of New York by anyone other than me, and all responses to me have been contests attempting one-upmanship.
The moderators ought to do a better job on these forums. |
I suspect that you're going to be crying your eyes out on this forum soon.
Here's a clue : in Poland, the savvy look for substance, not image. The two best schools I know look pretty horrible, but their teaching and reputation is second to none.
Like I said, most of us with experience in Poland know how the game works. If someone is offering less than 50% of the income from the class, then the school is trying to screw you. If someone wants me to work for them, I expect a straight and upfront answer about the salary (a range is fine) and the contract offered. I don't want to get involved with tedious interview processes - I need to know that the school can meet my expectations, too.
But hey, we only live and work here, and we know how the general Polish business culture works. From everything that you've described, it's a school that cares more about image than substance, as witnessed by the utter lack of serious qualifications held by the teachers.
Let's run through them, shall we?
Scott - background in restaurant and IT management. Unqualified.
Alicia - background in sales and marketing. Holds a no-name TEFL certificate.
Vergil - trained actor, unqualified.
Alyssa - not much experience, unqualified.
Timothy - unqualified.
Kate - finally, someone qualified!
Clayton - unqualified.
Rebecca - unqualified.
From all their teachers, only one of them has a real qualification in the TEFL field. That's pretty shocking, and shows that the school cares more about substance than anything else. There's no mention of any of their teachers being examiners for Cambridge, no mention of them holding CELTA/DELTA, nothing. |
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dragonpiwo
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1650
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: and.. |
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| And ANY still have an ad up, so they didn't want you anyways. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: and.. |
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| dragonpiwo wrote: |
| And ANY still have an ad up, so they didn't want you anyways. |
Where's the ad? Do they mention salary?
From what they say on their website, I'd be expecting at least 150zl an hour from them, based on them charging students 50zl an hour and group sizes of 6-8. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Found plenty of criticism of them here - plenty of comments about teachers not having a sound pedagogical background or ability to teach.
http://angielski.edu.pl/forum/t-ACADEMY_OF_NEW_YORK-16579.html
Found the job ad. Let's see...
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Minimum Salary: 4000
Maximum Salary: 7000 |
7000zl maximum. That means a full timetable (let's say 20 hours for the sake of argument) - you're getting at the very most 87.50zl per hour. Now - from my calculations, students are paying around 35zl an hour. Let's say 6 in a group - that means the school is taking 210zl an hour, or roughly paying the teacher 1/3rd of what they earn. Not a fair deal at all, and that assumes they'll pay on the high side (which is highly unlikely). If you calculate on the basis of 5000zl a month, the figures get even more in their favour.
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A BA diploma
A minimum of 1 year teaching experience, although we will consider newly qualified teachers
A recognized certificate in TEFL /CELTA or equivalent welcomed |
Doesn't really seem to match their "prestigious" and "professional" school, does it?
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| opportunities to gain non-teaching skills such as customer service and sales, time management, etc. |
Deserves a LOL, I suspect.
All in all, not hard to see that there's no substance beneath the image. |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| When all is said and done, just another school. Probably no better or worse than the average around the world. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:43 am Post subject: Re: ANY |
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| Moonshadow_51 wrote: |
People on this thread sure are pushy. And negative. And unprofessional. I tend to think your students are getting the brunt of the bad attitude in the classroom, which is on track with the thrust of this thread.
The thread was about the language school's manner of interviewing. I attempted to explain that this school is interested in professionals who project some sophistication. By sophistication, I mean social skills.
If a teacher can't project a positive attitude at an initial interview, and is looking after his/her personal interests from the get-go, then that individual is not a good match for a school with a positive profile.
And if s/he treats others around as ranked competition, the company isn't going to want that candidate back for a second round of interviews.
People post a question about a school at Dave's ESL Cafe, and nothing but boys' club bar talk bullying follows.
No facts have been offered about Academy of New York by anyone other than me, and all responses to me have been contests attempting one-upmanship.
The moderators ought to do a better job on these forums. |
Moonshadow_51, you write as if you have extensive, insider knowledge of ANY: What they look for in teachers, company vision, policies, etc.. You definitely profess to know more about the school than one could gain from a skype interview and a browse of the school website (which is only in Polish, BTW). May I ask how you've acquired this knowledge?
Contrary to what you claim, myself and Kevin have offered facts about ANY's interviewing process from our own personal experience. I have also shared the opinions of several past and present ANY teachers I know, most of whom didn't stay at the school longer than a year or two.
If you truly believe ANY are a solid, professional, ethical school to work for, would you mind sharing why? |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:35 am Post subject: Re: ANY |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
| If you truly believe ANY are a solid, professional, ethical school to work for, would you mind sharing why? |
The fact that they've offered him a job, maybe? 
Quite honestly, if they have to advertise on here for teachers, then it says something is wrong with them. I can understand schools in obscure Russian oblasts advertising - but not schools in a European financial centre. |
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dragonpiwo
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1650
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:50 am Post subject: Yep |
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I agree with DD on this one. Why do they need to advertise? Warsaw is awash with teachers.
Anyhow, with 20, qualified years of experience in the bag, I'd get up and leave in an interview if they were vague about the money from the off.
The first rule of TEFL: If a school dicks you for money, leave immediately. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Yep |
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| dragonpiwo wrote: |
Anyhow, with 20, qualified years of experience in the bag, I'd get up and leave in an interview if they were vague about the money from the off.
The first rule of TEFL: If a school dicks you for money, leave immediately. |
Pretty much. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience knows that if a school is being vague about hours and conditions, then they're clearly not a professional outfit. Really, who has time to waste with multiple interview rounds for an entry-level job? |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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That kind of stuff is more prominent with the larger outfits. They rely on big contracts to keep their employees busy and when one or two companies back out, they fall short on cash and people don't get paid.
If you're worth the time and money, I've found the smaller schools recruit through word of mouth from their current staff. I was recruited to a small school by one of their teachers because I also worked with her at another school and she knew I wasn't a mook and that the school wouldn't have problems with me. The school needed a native so I interviewed, it lasted 10 minutes, and the money was right. Done deal. They didn't have tons of work for me but enough for what I was looking for. If I had stayed in Poland I probably would have backed off from other employers and took on more of their clients. They were a no bullshit firm and I was a no bullshit teacher. It worked out. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Yep |
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| delphian-domine wrote: |
| Pretty much. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience knows that if a school is being vague about hours and conditions, then they're clearly not a professional outfit. Really, who has time to waste with multiple interview rounds for an entry-level job? |
What you don't seem to realize is that the reason many schools like ANY advertize online is to find teachers who don't have a lot of experience teaching in Poland. While you and I both know well that unsubstantiated verbal promises, vague information about pay, and multiple interviews are a bad sign, a newbie may think 'that's just how it's done in Poland' or 'Wow, I've passed my 3rd interview! I must really have what it takes.'
So, yeah, I agree that generally the smaller schools that hire locally through word of mouth are more reliable. But honestly, why not just work for yourself rather than one of them?
If I apply internationally for a job advertized online, I always go for one posted by a chain school I've heard of, like IH, Bell (but not ELS Bell Poland!) or the British Council. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Yep |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
| What you don't seem to realize is that the reason many schools like ANY advertize online is to find teachers who don't have a lot of experience teaching in Poland. While you and I both know well that unsubstantiated verbal promises, vague information about pay, and multiple interviews are a bad sign, a newbie may think 'that's just how it's done in Poland' or 'Wow, I've passed my 3rd interview! I must really have what it takes.' |
Thing is, wouldn't it be common sense anywhere to avoid verbal promises and vague information? I wouldn't trust someone saying that in the UK, so if someone tried it here, I'd laugh at them. Even my very first contract in Poland had a set 15 hours a week in the contract, and that was in a rubbish school.
Then again, I guess if the job advertisement is offering 4-7,000zl a month when the others are advertising 3-4,000 a month, greed takes over.
| Quote: |
| If I apply internationally for a job advertized online, I always go for one posted by a chain school I've heard of, like IH, Bell (but not ELS Bell Poland!) or the British Council. |
It's actually something that I'd be really worried about if I was to move abroad - I'd be worried that I didn't know the local business culture and so wouldn't know how to approach things. The Polish approach of demanding everything to be documented and signed off might not be taken too well elsewhere, although it's the professional thing to do in my opinion. |
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ecocks
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yet these stories are in no way peculiar to Poland.
They abound on sections for Saudi, Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan and other places.
Yes, TEFL newbies are led to believe that it is all on the up and up to not have a copy of the real contract, just trust the apartment selection of the school (ignore that the landlord is the cousin of the manager), nobody gets visa support and so on, but the reality is that there is enough teacher supply to get away with it.
The "tightest" place I ever worked was Azerbaijan. The school clearly spelled out 108 hours a month, paid for transport between classes or sessions not at the office and you were responsible for getting your own apartment. Due to visa restrictions, you couldn't get in unless they had given you all this in advance for your visa application.
Poland is no different than a dozen other countries who employ hundreds, if not thousands, of TEFL teachers. |
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