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Academy of New York Warsaw
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Yep Reply with quote

[quote="delphian-domine"]
Master Shake wrote:

Even my very first contract in Poland had a set 15 hours a week in the contract, and that was in a rubbish school.



If you ask me, you should be wary of any business that says to you,"I can guarantee we'll sell "X" amount of product over the next 10 months." It's kinda like getting hired by a car manufacturer and they tell you that you can be sure you're going to have 45 hrs. a week because there's no question we're going to sell 45,000 cars this year.

Selling cars, selling lessons, you never know. Companies change budgets all the time and for some, English lessons are not a big priority and it gets cut, therefore your class load gets cut down the line.

Many people on here surely can attest to signing a contract with "guaranteed hours" and those hours didn't happen. Stories of schools not paying people for months on end are commonplace here.

In the end, when you sign up with a school in Poland (I can only speak of Poland because it's the only country I've done the TEFL gig in) you should expect the school to be less than put together. In general, these schools are dodgy so you just gotta do your research, roll the dice and have a contingency plan.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 534

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Yep Reply with quote

dynow wrote:
If you ask me, you should be wary of any business that says to you,"I can guarantee we'll sell "X" amount of product over the next 10 months." It's kinda like getting hired by a car manufacturer and they tell you that you can be sure you're going to have 45 hrs. a week because there's no question we're going to sell 45,000 cars this year.


Well, one way of looking at it is that it isn't my problem if they don't have the work. If the contract is legally sound, then the teacher has nothing to worry about.

Quote:
Many people on here surely can attest to signing a contract with "guaranteed hours" and those hours didn't happen. Stories of schools not paying people for months on end are commonplace here.


Mostly it happens to people that don't have alternatives or choices. I once did some freelance work for a school that failed to pay me on the agreed date. After a bit of discussion, it transpired that her admin girl had overstepped her authority when negotiating a contract with me. But the damage had been done, and I made it clear that either the entire contract would be paid immediately, or they would get a letter the next day informing them of the formal termination of the contract as well as informing the client as to the exact situation.

End result? They refused to pay (something like 8000zl, I think...) - so I went straight to the client, informed them as to the situation and tore up the contract. A few hours later, the client agreed to just work with me directly, as they were also distinctly unimpressed by the whole situation.

Quote:
In the end, when you sign up with a school in Poland (I can only speak of Poland because it's the only country I've done the TEFL gig in) you should expect the school to be less than put together. In general, these schools are dodgy so you just gotta do your research, roll the dice and have a contingency plan.


Same everywhere with entry-level TEFL jobs really. I just had to tell one English idiot in Spain that either he pays 200 Euro to my friend - now - or else he can expect a visit from the taxman.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 886
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same everywhere or at least most places.

Jack-leg schools, little concept that a "contract" or agreement is anything more than an intention, employee turnover, hidden deductions and penalties, all these things happen in most countries where TEFLers ply their trade. All you have to do is read in the other sections and the allure of Poland becomes more apparent.

Of course, that is one thing that "should" set the big school chains apart but still seems hit or miss in the industry. Not quite a well-regulated profession just yet.
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Yep Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:
If the contract is legally sound.....


define "legally sound." Confused

you just explained to us how you got hosed for 8 grand. was it because you didn't have "alternatives or choices"? No, it's because you worked a bunch and your company broke it off in ya'. it's a dodgy industry at best and the average TEFL'er doesn't have the time, money or patience to go through all the litigation and the employers know it. they have home field advantage and the language barrier alone discourages most from pursuing unpaid wages.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 786
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:48 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Hosed for 8k?

To jest Polska!
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 534

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Yep Reply with quote

dynow wrote:
define "legally sound." Confused


One that they won't want to go to court over.

Most language schools in most countries are fairly dodgy places - they won't go to court because they know that it might end up very, very badly for them.

Quote:
No, it's because you worked a bunch and your company broke it off in ya'.


Didn't bother me, it's easy enough to find contracts teaching business clients. I got what was due to me.

Actually, I didn't get hosed, because they still paid what was actually owed. It was my choice to take a strict line - I could have negotiated, but I always stuck to the rule that I don't work for anyone that doesn't pay on time.

Quote:
it's a dodgy industry at best and the average TEFL'er doesn't have the time, money or patience to go through all the litigation and the employers know it. they have home field advantage and the language barrier alone discourages most from pursuing unpaid wages.


That's their problem. It's actually easier in places such as Poland and Ukraine, because they won't want to go near a court.

At the end of the day, a teacher can destroy a school easily if they aren't paid. But they also shouldn't let the situation get out of hand (see the thread about ELS-Bell for instance) - if someone owes money, you should always, always go after them hard.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 786
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject: Easier said than done Reply with quote

However, the reality is that people arrive in Poland having shelled out for the move and full of optimism.

Schools know that once they've fobbed you off for a couple of months ie your first cheque is late, you probably don't have the money to pursue them in court over a certain time frame. Many non-EU teachers are also not there with the correct papers, having been promised that affairs would be sorted by dishonest employers. Ther's a whole host of reasons why employers get away with it. If you walk, there are 10 people waiting for the job behind you and the schools just pick the next CV out of the file.

Not everyone has the luxury of crashing for free at the missus' flat when they first arrive Delph.

That said, as has been pointed out, it's an industry-wide problem.

TEFL teacher/TEFL industry/TEFL career

Which one looks weird to you? I'd go for number 3 meself. Replace 'career' with the word 'potluck' and that's more like it. Every time you move country it's a shot in the dark to some extent.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 958
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: Easier said than done Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
However, the reality is that people arrive in Poland having shelled out for the move and full of optimism.

Schools know that once they've fobbed you off for a couple of months ie your first cheque is late, you probably don't have the money to pursue them in court over a certain time frame. Many non-EU teachers are also not there with the correct papers, having been promised that affairs would be sorted by dishonest employers. Ther's a whole host of reasons why employers get away with it. If you walk, there are 10 people waiting for the job behind you and the schools just pick the next CV out of the file.
Totally agree. Going after a school in court may be a viable option for Delph, who's been in Poland for ages and knows the legal system, but for the vast majority of TEFLers, it simply isn't an option. If a school doesn't pay them, they're up a creek and aren't getting paid. End of story.

dragonpiwo wrote:
TEFL teacher/TEFL industry/TEFL career

Which one looks weird to you? I'd go for number 3 meself. Replace 'career' with the word 'potluck' and that's more like it. Every time you move country it's a shot in the dark to some extent.
But you can move around the globe getting jobs with international chains like IH, Bell (though everyone should stay away from ELS Bell Poland right now) and the British Council. This provides a little more job security and consistency than going with some random school.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 786
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

But an IH salary in Poland? Seriously? I think the BC is a good bet though if you can be arsed to fill in their application form. How unnecessary is that?

I might move back to Poz for a year for various reasons and in some ways I'm dreading the job hunt.
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 845
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
I might move back to Poz for a year for various reasons and in some ways I'm dreading the job hunt.


Good call given the situation in Libya right now....
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 886
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FINALLY, a negative on Poland in terms of the teacher' market....

I wouldn't be surprised if more teachers begin pulling out of Russia, Ukraine, Georgia and some of the ME as things worsen.

Supply and demand will be affected to some extent everywhere but particularly for those who sought Eastern Europe and more stabilized countries.
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dyllabox



Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 4
Location: Warsaw

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: So this post is supposed to be about academy of New York Reply with quote

I commented in the other thread about the working conditions at academy of New York. If you have any real questions about working there, let me know.

It seems as though this thread has become about the cost of living in Warsaw and not about academy of New York.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 958
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: So this post is supposed to be about academy of New York Reply with quote

dyllabox wrote:
I commented in the other thread about the working conditions at academy of New York. If you have any real questions about working there, let me know.

It seems as though this thread has become about the cost of living in Warsaw and not about academy of New York.
On the Poland forum, every thread becomes about the cost of living in Poland at some point. Call it a blessing or a curse.

Still, there is a lot of info about ANY on this thread if you filter through the other stuff.
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Moonshadow_51



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: ANY Reply with quote

People who post derogatory comments about other teaching professionals and post their names are very unhappy people. Calling strangers unqualified without having observed their work is purely undermining.

The issue is customer satisfaction. ANY draws high quality students to its school, and even they claim it is the best school in Warsaw.

The agenda here is obvious: there are some very annoying people working in Warsaw who have been turned down by ANY, and they aim to harm the school's reputation.

Scott, Vergil, Clayton and the rest are highly qualified teachers. Their profiles suggest their versatility in life, beyond language training. As a matter of fact, this school is by far superior to any other institute I have worked with throughout a long and illustrious career, and as a DOS who has served students in over 10 countries, I can easily attest that the students are very pleased with their progress.

I will not be making any further posts on this topic, as the only way to deal with irrational, vengeful personalities is to ignore them.
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 509

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A DOS who who has worked in over ten countries and believes that their are high and (I suppose there has to be a converse) low quality students? Hmmm..... Sounds like someone is more concerned with the bottom line than education Smile
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