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2-year ban for expats returns
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16189
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said way back when this topic started, we won't really know how this affects teachers until we have some teachers complete their contract and then try to switch employers.

Until then, both of you are speculating. My speculation matches Omanoman's interpretation:

Quote:
So, the way I see it (and the way it has been reported) is this:

If you just up and leave, do the "runner" as they say, then you're out for 2 years

If you leave on good terms but don't get an NOC..... 2 years

If you want to change jobs before the 2 year visa is up, good terms or not......nope, the NOC won't help

If you finish your two years, get an NOC, you can be transferred to another company or get stamped out at the airport and fly back in for your new sponsor.


Basically this puts us back where we were in the past. Now, as then, the key is going to be whether or not the employer will provide the NOC when you finish the contract. There will be some nasty employers who will not, which was why they started ignoring this law in the first place.

The sad truth is that we won't know for sure what will happen until a couple years up the line as we watch how enforcement is handled... or not.

VS
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 966
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

omanoman wrote:
So, the way I see it (and the way it has been reported) is this:

If you just up and leave, do the "runner" as they say, then you're out for 2 years. Yep

If you leave on good terms but don't get an NOC..... 2 years Yep

If you want to change jobs before the 2 year visa is up, good terms or not......nope, the NOC won't help Yep, and this is the problem because it gives dodgy employers too much power over the employee.

If you finish your two years, get an NOC, you can be transferred to another company or get stamped out at the airport and fly back in for your new sponsor. Not too sure about the transfer process now. This used to be possible but the change last year seems to demand getting cancelled and leaving, sending a scan of the cancelled visa to the new employer and then waiting for a scan of the new visa before being able to come back.. There's no more coming in on tourist visas and then getting the work visa afterwards for sure.

So, the rules work very well in stopping people hopping from job to job or being poached by rivals - as was stated in the beginning from industry sources. And it could help in some Omanization activities for certain areas. After the huge backlash /reaction, the NOC rules were announced as being re-activated. Yep, but job-hopping is sometimes because the first employer defaults on promises as I've said.
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 966
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
Basically this puts us back where we were in the past. Now, as then, the key is going to be whether or not the employer will provide the NOC when you finish the contract. There will be some nasty employers who will not, which was why they started ignoring this law in the first place.VS


Interestingly the MoM has gone to the trouble of announcing today that sponsors do not have to issue NOCs, it's entirely up to them.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16189
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that has always been the way it was... or at least that is how it went. None of them seemed to provide one unless you asked. I even recall SQU refusing them to a few teachers that they were miffed at...

My meaning as to "ignoring this law" was that the 2 year ban wasn't enforced.

VS
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nicole2010



Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi OmanOman - this analysis assumes all contracts are two years. According to the labour law contracts are a fixed term or indefinite. See Labour Articles below. The two years I believe refers to how long work visas are issued for which does not necessarily correlate to the contract term. I am not even sure if the people administering the 're'enforced law have all the answers as it seems it would take legal know-how to come to the right outcome in certain cases leaving the possibility for arbitrary and uneven enforcement.

There must be a better way to accomplish the Omani labour goals than this rule. I don't think job hopping is such a bad thing. It creates competition between employers which would raise work standards and employment conditions and salaries would be market dictated. Employers could protect themselves by not reimbursing for certain expenses for a longer period of time. Restriction on labour movement is ultimately negative for the economy. Not to mention people are always taking part time jobs on the side and many colleges are employing part time teachers because this is needed to keep things running even if technically not legal.

This whole NOC thing implies ownership over a person which I find distasteful as a Westerner. And, many 'illegal' sponsorships when employees pay their sponsor some amount of rial each month to have a labour card are run by the police themselves or people with wasta enforcing this law. I was offered a sponsorship by a member of ROP two years ago when in between employers! I probably should have taken it in retrospect.

Article (36):

If the contract is for a limited duration, and the parties have continued the execution thereof
after expiry of its duration, the contract shall be deemed to have been renewed with the same
terms for and indefinite period.

Article (37):

If the contract is fro and unlimited duration, any one of the parties may terminate it after giving
a written notice to the other party thirty days before the termination date in case of workers
who were employed on a monthly basis, and fifteen days for the other workers, unless a longer
period is agreed to in the contract.
If the contract is terminated without observation of such notice period, the party who
terminates the contract will be obliged to bay to the other party compensation equal to the
Gross Wage for the notice period or the remaining part thereof.
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omanoman



Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was speaking to an HR guy today who is in contact with Manpower as part of his job. His feeling is that 2 years is the term, since that is the length of the resident visa, irrespective of the employee's contract.

Of course, that makes little sense when most of us have one year "rolling" contracts which, as the law states, are automatically renewed unless either party terminates it or changes the terms in the right time period.

And he even said that only internal visa changes will be possible so you can't get stamped out after your two years, with an NOC and then return. That one I feel not as sure about but then, who really knows? Maybe that stamp out at the airport is the stamp of death and cannot be reversed for two years no matter what?

And he also said there was no blocking of visa allotments for giving an NOC, in his fairly broken English, he said this was an ROP idea that was not related to Manpower, as he did that gesturing wipe of your hands together, which indicates some form of dismissal or end to the matter.
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Sleepwalker



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 376
Location: Reading the screen

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke to an HR Manager yesterday who said that he thought that people who had completed their initial contract may be able to transfer but added that until someone tests the system then no one knew for certain.

It looks like the old system on the surface but when you add the suspension of visas for certain occupations, it might not be.

The ban is to stop job hopping and it may well be that its effect on a small percentage of the expat population (ie teachers) won't be considered.

We still have to wait and see.
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CVN-76



Joined: 28 Mar 2014
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sleepwalker wrote:

We still have to wait and see.


You won't have to wait long before somebody does a runner and tests the new rules.
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madrileno



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CVN-76 wrote:
Sleepwalker wrote:

We still have to wait and see.


You won't have to wait long before somebody does a runner and tests the new rules.


I expect we'll hear before the end of autumn semester...
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CVN-76



Joined: 28 Mar 2014
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My money is on it being a lot sooner than that.
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globebot



Joined: 20 Sep 2013
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply Reply with quote

Been there; done that (many times). And it was a real hoot! Glad I had the opportunity when I did.
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globebot



Joined: 20 Sep 2013
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply Reply with quote

The oil boom in the Muddle East Gulf States was accompanied with a population explosion which continues unabated to this very day. The social welfare state model worked for a while, with those at the top (shake and bakes, kings and princes and sultans) skimming a lion's share off the top. With so many young people who have nothing to do, the institutions of "higher learning" were turned into holding pens for them. This no longer works, and unemployment amongst the youth is the one single issue that will bring chaos and instability to the region like never before. The writing is and has been on the wall for some time now.
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Sleepwalker



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 376
Location: Reading the screen

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To return to topic - any news? rumours?
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madrileno



Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sleepwalker wrote:
To return to topic - any news? rumours?


At the HCT where I currently work, when we finished the past academic year (completing our one year-renewable contracts), a few people tried to transfer to other employers/colleges in the same city or elsewhere in Oman. Every single one of them was denied, and had to leave the country.

Looks like the two-year ban is set in stone, for now. Either stay with the same employer year after year, or leave the Sultanate for two years before returning.
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balqis



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but would it make any dif if the last employer had issued a NOC? Would then a transfer be possible to any other Kulayat Takanyia, or else, to other than Takanyia educational establishment in Oman?
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