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LarueLarry
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 32
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Okie from Muskogee wrote: |
ExpatLuke wrote: |
Dave1, your posts read like bad, teenage, horror fan fiction. If you have a problem with people checking on your teaching then you're just a lousy and paranoid teacher. That's it. I work as a teacher at a school that gives the students surveys every two months, and has 1 observation for each course every 4 months.... So with 5 courses that's 15 observations a year.
And I think it's just fine. I've never felt bullied, because I'm confident in my teaching. And I can honestly say the system has made me a much better teacher than I was before in worked here. |
Geezes H Crispy! 15 obs a year?! That's more than 1 obs/month! LOL
I'd like to know which lousy and paranoid school you work at. Sounds like nightmarish teacher training school. But glad to hear that it forced you into a better teacher. Some of us are already better teachers, but not perfect, but really really good teachers so we don't have to put up with that &^%@. I hope they pay more than 40 bucks an hour.
I been going in and out of vietnam for more than 10 years and wonder why I ain't heard of your outfit. Are you sure you ain't pulling that out your %^&?
I'm sorry for my foul mouth. I also teach my students 'merican idioms and humor with foul language as well. I bet your imaginary school will love to observe my classes because I find vietnamese adult students learn much better with humor and foul language. |
Sounds like Fisher Super kids. One of many reasons not to work there. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Posts: 744
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: |
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LarueLarry wrote: |
Okie from Muskogee wrote: |
ExpatLuke wrote: |
Dave1, your posts read like bad, teenage, horror fan fiction. If you have a problem with people checking on your teaching then you're just a lousy and paranoid teacher. That's it. I work as a teacher at a school that gives the students surveys every two months, and has 1 observation for each course every 4 months.... So with 5 courses that's 15 observations a year.
And I think it's just fine. I've never felt bullied, because I'm confident in my teaching. And I can honestly say the system has made me a much better teacher than I was before in worked here. |
Geezes H Crispy! 15 obs a year?! That's more than 1 obs/month! LOL
I'd like to know which lousy and paranoid school you work at. Sounds like nightmarish teacher training school. But glad to hear that it forced you into a better teacher. Some of us are already better teachers, but not perfect, but really really good teachers so we don't have to put up with that &^%@. I hope they pay more than 40 bucks an hour.
I been going in and out of vietnam for more than 10 years and wonder why I ain't heard of your outfit. Are you sure you ain't pulling that out your %^&?
I'm sorry for my foul mouth. I also teach my students 'merican idioms and humor with foul language as well. I bet your imaginary school will love to observe my classes because I find vietnamese adult students learn much better with humor and foul language. |
Sounds like Fisher Super kids. One of many reasons not to work there. |
Fisher's Superkids doesn't do 15 observations a year... but they do pay 22-25 per hour, which is the highest in town. Not sure what your many reasons for not working there are, but I would work there if I wasn't happy where I was. |
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Okie from Muskogee
Joined: 31 Jan 2014 Posts: 55
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Ok, now I get it. Of course most of us wouldn't know how to 'teach or babysit' buncha 2-3 year old babies or change their diapers. I developed an allergy to clown suits and halloween costumes many years ago. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Posts: 744
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Okie from Muskogee wrote: |
Some of us are already better teachers, but not perfect, but really really good teachers so we don't have to put up with that &^%@. I hope they pay more than 40 bucks an hour.
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I believe that I'm a pretty good teacher. But even the best teachers will tell you regular observation makes you better and always keeps fresh ideas flowing. I really don't know what the big deal is. Why would they have to pay more to be observed? I get paid for the follow up meetings. Why are some teachers so scared or opposed to observations? |
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Okie from Muskogee
Joined: 31 Jan 2014 Posts: 55
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: |
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ExpatLuke wrote: |
Okie from Muskogee wrote: |
Some of us are already better teachers, but not perfect, but really really good teachers so we don't have to put up with that &^%@. I hope they pay more than 40 bucks an hour.
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I believe that I'm a pretty good teacher. But even the best teachers will tell you regular observation makes you better and always keeps fresh ideas flowing. I really don't know what the big deal is. Why would they have to pay more to be observed? I get paid for the follow up meetings. Why are some teachers so scared or opposed to observations? |
So you think 15 obs aren't excessive?
I think they need to pay because they're learning from me as to how to teach. I'm just that good. I don't feel I need 15 obs a year just to keep a transient job in vietnam while having to train other 'teachers'. As I always say, "don't invent the wheel when wheel is turning." |
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Brunouno
Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Posts: 129
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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A very important factor which is being missed out in this conversation is that the quality of the observer is what's most important. A teacher can receive as many observations as a school wishes, but if the observer is unqualified and/or gives stupid advice, improvement is unlikely. This is why peer observation is a big no-no for me. Unannounced observations are unprofessional and create a nasty environment which will likely result in a disgruntled teacher. I believe having an attitude of wanting to self-improve is what's needed to improve as a teacher; observations can be a part of this if they are conducted in the correct manner. |
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Okie from Muskogee
Joined: 31 Jan 2014 Posts: 55
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Brunouno wrote: |
A very important factor which is being missed out in this conversation is that the quality of the observer is what's most important. A teacher can receive as many observations as a school wishes, but if the observer is unqualified and/or gives stupid advice, improvement is unlikely. This is why peer observation is a big no-no for me. Unannounced observations are unprofessional and create a nasty environment which will likely result in a disgruntled teacher. I believe having an attitude of wanting to self-improve is what's needed to improve as a teacher; observations can be a part of this if they are conducted in the correct manner. |
Thank you! The biggest problem is 99.9% don't know what correct manner is. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 477
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Peer observation is a horse of a very different colour to observations by a supervisor.
The observer is there as much to learn as the observed. You watch each others lessons and then have a feedback session afterwards - you can ask the other guy why they did XYZ and if ABC might have been better. It all has to be done in the right spirit but if you actually want to improve your teaching then it is IMO the best exercise. Feedback and any 'notes' must remain confidential between the teachers or it won't really work.
Having your DoS come in and observe a lesson then have a feedback session that your future employment or pay depends on is open to abuse in so many ways. Not least of which is that many teachers maintain a few 'pat' lessons they trot out when they know they will be observed which bear very little resemblance to what they actually do when left alone. If we then factor in how unqualified and unskilled many doing the observations are then it is doubly futile. I can see why it is necessary though and have always accepted observations as a such.
That said - I haven't been observed properly since I did my TESOL Diploma. I have had about 4 observations since but I didn't get any useful feedback on any of them. The last one I didn't get any feedback at all - I think I frightened the observer too much! Others were just - fine - well done - keep up the good work stuff but one - in a FE college was just ridiculous - the observer was not an EFL teacher of even a language teacher and while she had a few good points to make was really just ticking off boxes on a checklist. Waste of time really.
For this [FE College observation] I had to have written lesson plans for every lesson during a whole month [I was doing this anyway at that time but it was a lot of work] and the observer was allowed to come in to any lesson during that month. In FE colleges they typically produce a scheme of work for the entire year with lesson plans and then just repeat it year after year until they leave or die so for most of them it wouldn't be any sweat at all to produce the reams of paperwork required. The main issue they had with my lesson - the only one in fact - was that I didn't have a scheme of work for the entire year in my folder! I told the woman observing that such SOWs [love how apt the acronym is] were inapplicable in an EFL setting where you don't know what students will be in your class from week to week let alone year to year and that if the teachers in my dept produced SOWs they sure as sugar didn't follow them. Not something she wanted to hear and there was no box to tick for that so we moved on. I got a 'C' grade which was acceptable. Grade B or better meant you were exempt from the rigmarole for the following year and a grade D or worse meant you'd have another observation the same year. If you kept getting D or E you might eventually be dismissed but the process took 2 years!
It's on experience like these that I base my thesis that observations do not raise teaching standards at all - or even maintain them.
If you want good teachers then conduct a proper interview - ask to see a few lesson plans and talk through them with the teacher before hiring them. Pay a motivating salary and keep contact hours and admin hours low enough to allow the staff to prepare properly and go into class fresh and with enough energy to do a proper job. I know, I know - not going to happen.... |
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