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Do I have a chance in Poland?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1630
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:35 am    Post subject: janek Reply with quote

Very hard to find those rates in Poznan.

Profi et al farm natives out and charge 100. That's your competition. Not saying it can't be done but it's hard.

Meanwhile, I'm off to an interview in the UAE-approx 26k a month according to what's on the net and my wife will join me. 4 hours a day. I know which I prefer.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11441
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: janek Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
Meanwhile, I'm off to an interview in the UAE-approx 26k a month according to what's on the net and my wife will join me. 4 hours a day. I know which I prefer.

It's odd that you're required to fly to the UAE to interview for a part-time position. Is this potential employer footing your hotel bill and roundtrip airfare? Besides, adjunct opportunities are almost always filled either by expats already in country and holding UAE residency, or by UAE nationals. This gets the employer out of paying for housing and other benefits. Sounds fishy, especially given your stated amount of 4 hours of work per day for very high pay.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1630
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: u got a crossed wire Reply with quote

Part-time in Polska, full-time UAE. They are flying me there and putting me up having found my CV on an oil and gas website. It's a good married status gig. 4 hours teaching sometimes 5. Not much and field work is my cup of tea. I've had interview 1.

Fingers crossed. Might be the job that tempts me out of North Africa.
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Infinite



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 235

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AussieGus wrote:
Thanks Dragon and the others who responded.

I suspected Europe would be a waste of time and those negative replies confirmed it. What surprises me though is that you've actually praised the Middle East for someone in my shoes. I've only heard the most dastardly things about the entire region for example (I'd have to mad to even consider it, they're the most intolerant people on earth, etc) but you've made it sound feasible, even a desirable destination. What gives?


Then there are those of us, myself included, with two kids and a wife, living, breathing, working and not complaining. And... then there are hundreds of other natives... doing the same exact thing. Take EVERYTHING you read here with a truck load of salt.. as in Carl Sagan's - billions and billions and billions of tons of salt.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1630
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:41 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

I think the vast majority of EFL teachers in Poland are a month, maybe two, away from financial penury just about all of the time and that's why they have to scuttle off to the UK or some daft summer camp every summer. I'd love to do a straw poll on who has umowa of praca here, which gives you legal protection in the work place in Poland, paid holidays etc. Yes you will be fine if A- you can find a lot of work, B-are prepared to work every week of the year and C-Don't get sick. Some have married well and got a free flat out it, some get bailed out by mum and dad, a few have got 1 in a 1,000,000 jobs but the vast majority live pretty much on the bread line if they are single. If you have the safety net of a missus who earns 12 months of they year because being Polish , she is likely to have a sensible contract, then chances are, you'll be OK ut when the kids come along, much will depend on her wanting to go back to work. For me it's much simpler to go somewhere I can earn enough to pay for the lot, save a bundle and work much less. All you have to do is browse the endless posts on this forum about getting dicked to see it's not so simple in Poland. Here, every domino needs to fall in exactly the right place all of the time. If you can find a decent employer and get a good rate and don't have too much non-teaching time and you never get sick and your missus works and her pregnancy is uncomplicated and she goes back to work and you can get support from the family when you need it, then you'll be OK as long as you stay healthy and can work till you die. I like kielbasa and forests but not that much.
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depechemodefan1966



Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree with dragonpiwo. The days of earning 3,500 to 4,500 zlotys a month are long gone. In my last year I was earning 1,600 a month, and that was a good month, without the bullshit holidays! During the school year, there are only about four months where you will work a full month.
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scottie1113



Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Gdansk

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I've said many times, I'm earning a lot more than that, but I've also been here for 7 1/2 years and I know the ropes. For new teachers, the picture is gloomy.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

depechemodefan1966 wrote:
Totally agree with dragonpiwo. The days of earning 3,500 to 4,500 zlotys a month are long gone. In my last year I was earning 1,600 a month, and that was a good month, without the bullshit holidays! During the school year, there are only about four months where you will work a full month.


1,600zl a month is a good month? I don't know where you were working, but you were absolutely conned if that was the deal. Even in a small town, 40zl/hour net would be normal - which is a mere 10 hours a week. Anyone offering less than that would be laughing at you for accepting such a poor deal - and I can assure you that in a small town, they would have been hiring you out at a far more expensive rate.

A basic rule of thumb is to research how much a school would charge for a private lesson with you and start the bidding at 2/3rds of that. The school charges 70zl for an hour with a native? Then you ask for 50zl and don't go lower than 45zl. Particularly in smaller towns, finding a competent native is nearly impossible for most schools anyway.

Paid holidays, set monthly salaries, health insurance and so on are normal in proper schools. The problem is that these schools (the one I work in included) is that they can afford to be fussy - or simply put, your face has to fit the workplace. We go one step further and actually ask the children their opinion of the teacher - a negative opinion from the children is taken seriously.


Last edited by delphian-domine on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1630
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:18 am    Post subject: ha Reply with quote

This negotiating is balls and 5ZL/hour will make naff all difference to anything. Even 60Zl/hour is beyond many of the schools. Then there are all the holidays as has been pointed out. It's a backpacker's job in most of Poland now. Long-run most teachers who have gone native are going to come unstuck.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: ha Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
This negotiating is balls and 5ZL/hour will make naff all difference to anything. Even 60Zl/hour is beyond many of the schools. Then there are all the holidays as has been pointed out. It's a backpacker's job in most of Poland now. Long-run most teachers who have gone native are going to come unstuck.


They're already unstuck if you ask me.

A teacher coming to Poland now should be throwing themselves into conferences, training courses (particularly ones that give you 'rights', such as being the director of camps, director of school trips) and even doing a MA/post-diploma course. Training in psychology/therapy goes a long way, as does a keen interest in education in general. It's not enough to just be a native speaker - even my own job evaluation states that I'm expected to behave like a local, which means constant CPD.

The job offer I have going - for me, the most important thing is that the person wants to be there. It's amazing how difficult it is to find such a person...
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depechemodefan1966



Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi delphian. During my time in the city (four years) and it is the 8th largest in Poland, I earned between 35 and 42 zl an hour, depending on the school. It never changed the whole time I was there. The problem was that in my last year, my hours dropped like a brick. The schools blamed the crisis and a few schools went to the wall. In my last year I was doing as many hours in a month as I was doing in a week in my second and third years. Earning 1,600 a month had nothing to do with my hourly rate, but the significant drop in student numbers. All the schools suffered and my colleagues too, but some of them were fortunate in that they had other full-time jobs or husbands to support them.

I would go back tomorrow if I was getting the same as I am here, but, being realistic, I know that is never going to happen. I enjoyed my time there. I just couldn't afford to stay there anymore. If I did go back, I would insist on a higher hourly rate.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1630
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:13 pm    Post subject: and Reply with quote

And you wouldn't get it as the schools really don't care if the performing chimp has experience or not.
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Infinite



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 235

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depechemodefan1966 wrote:
Hi delphian. During my time in the city (four years) and it is the 8th largest in Poland, I earned between 35 and 42 zl an hour, depending on the school. It never changed the whole time I was there.


Man, that's crazy talk. I worked for a small school in a town of 20,000 and got 50 per 60. With 5 other natives in the area.
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Spelunker



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:03 pm    Post subject: re: wow Reply with quote

4,000 (zloty?) a month is about 930 euros at present? For that I'd want guaranteed free furnished accomodation with no bills and fast working internet, and a very low living cost (beer/food) to even consider it. As other posters have said, the ME seems better to make savings, why are things so grim in Europe tefl wise?
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11523
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
why are things so grim in Europe tefl wise?


Economies are slower than in the higher-paying regions like Asia and the ME. Also, there is quite strong competition across Europe from highly qualified locals who are taking on more and more of the work.
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