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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:27 am Post subject: Arabic L1s and gender neutrality in English |
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(This is an opinion piece.)
When language becomes a victim
By Ibrahem Alammar, Arab News | 30 March 2015
Source: http://www.arabnews.com/columns/news/725171
Enjoy reading books, whether Arabic or English. And while reading books in both languages, one thing that always stands out to me is how both languages address the sexes.
In Arabic writing, the masculine form is always used, even when both sexes are addressed. If a subject addresses men only, the context informs the reader. If women are addressed, then almost everything is switched to the feminine. Not just pronouns and adjectives, but verbs and nouns as well.
Grammatical gender is a somewhat difficult part of Arabic, but it is part of its extraordinary precision, even if new speakers might think it a cumbersome chore. In English, people today commonly view the use of the masculine tone as politically incorrect. They frown upon sentences like “Man can be anything he wants to be if he puts his mind to it.” Unacceptable! Offensive! Outrageous!
But is it? Interestingly, using the masculine pronoun to address a general audience is a sound and old practice in English, and only in recent times did it change due to social pressure.
It may be politically correct not to use the masculine form in English anymore, but it makes the language a lot clumsier in my opinion. The above sentence becomes “One can be anything he or she wants to be if he or she puts his or her mind to it.” You can hear the clunk of this plodding beast miles away. A sentence such as, “One can be anything one wants to be if one puts one’s mind to it” is painfully repetitive and obviously unusable. And something like, “A person can be anything they want to be if they put their mind to it” feels weak and bland.
It’s confusing and clumsy, when reading an English book, to see the adjectives and pronouns vacillating between masculine and feminine. An author might write a sentence, “If solution X does not solve the customer’s problem, she should try solution Y.” And then a few paragraphs later, “The customer who could not resolve his problem using solution Y is advised to try solution Z.” And so it goes, throughout the book. I feel as if authors are writing in a worried state, walking on eggshells, counting the number of times she/her were used against he/his, afraid of offending anyone.
Social movements affect many aspects of society: Politics, culture, education, even everyday etiquette. But when a movement (like feminism) affects language itself; language that predates the social movement by hundreds or even thousands of years, there’s something wrong — either the language is too weak to withstand such an unnecessary assault, or the movement’s proponents are so sensitive that they are willing to deform their own culture, their own language, just so they would not be “offended.” And currently in the West (and the US especially), protection from “offense” is now a sacred right. What are the parameters of “offense”? What is offensive and what is acceptable? No one knows, the definition changes regularly.
And the victim, among others, is this once-great institution, now a victim to bullying and pressure: The English language.
(End of opinion) |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Obviously written by a male who feels that the original sexist forms include him and are thus just fine...
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Going back to Latin grammarians, the rule was that "The Male embraces the Female"
Now looking for a source for my outrageous sexist and Latinist assertion but can find no ammunition.
I did find this
The rule was formulated by Anne Fisher a FEMALE Grammarian in a book of 1745.
http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/hsl_shl/rodriguez-gil.htm
Last edited by scot47 on Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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As if that makes the sexist exclusion all just fine and dandy... she too was a product of her time.
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returnee2014
Joined: 06 Jun 2014 Posts: 37 Location: SuliTown, Iraq
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Arabic L1s and gender neutrality in English |
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nomad soul wrote: |
They frown upon sentences like “Man can be anything he wants to be if he puts his mind to it.” Unacceptable! Offensive! Outrageous!
But is it? Interestingly, using the masculine pronoun to address a general audience is a sound and old practice in English, and only in recent times did it change due to social pressure. |
Other recent developments of note: slavery is illegal, blacks and women can vote, the term *beep* used to denote homosexual is offensive, the term coloureds has been replaced by black or african american, the term indian has likewise been replaced by native american.
nomad soul wrote: |
It may be politically correct not to use the masculine form in English anymore, but it makes the language a lot clumsier in my opinion. The above sentence becomes “One can be anything he or she wants to be if he or she puts his or her mind to it.” You can hear the clunk of this plodding beast miles away. A sentence such as, “One can be anything one wants to be if one puts one’s mind to it” is painfully repetitive and obviously unusable. And something like, “A person can be anything they want to be if they put their mind to it” feels weak and bland. |
I think the original sounds clunky/awkard, as it does seem to imply that a man can be anything he wants if he puts his mind to it, but women not so much. The only reason the word human or person or one or individual sounds off to you is because you are used to seeing the words "man" or "mankind".
nomad soul wrote: |
I feel as if authors are writing in a worried state, walking on eggshells, counting the number of times she/her were used against he/his, afraid of offending anyone. |
This is why I advocate "they". English only recently adopted "you" as a singular second person pronoun, instead of "thou". Which decreases the precision of the language by making the plural and singular indistinguishable except through context. So what's wrong with "they" as a gender neutral third person singular? Also, what's wrong with not wanting to offend your reader? You are suggesting that we should all be less sympathetic to issues of race and gender? Why? Because it suits you and you don't want to be bothered with it?
nomad soul wrote: |
Social movements affect many aspects of society: Politics, culture, education, even everyday etiquette. But when a movement (like feminism) affects language itself; language that predates the social movement by hundreds or even thousands of years, there’s something wrong — either the language is too weak to withstand such an unnecessary assault, or the movement’s proponents are so sensitive that they are willing to deform their own culture, their own language, just so they would not be “offended.” And currently in the West (and the US especially), protection from “offense” is now a sacred right. What are the parameters of “offense”? What is offensive and what is acceptable? No one knows, the definition changes regularly.
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The English language is quite fluid. The inflexibility resides in you. Are you victimizing English or victimizing yourself. This looks like a case of aggressor turned victim to me. Truly pathetic. Sounds like something my racist/sexist father would say in defense of his anachronistic racial and sexist epithets.
nomad soul wrote: |
And the victim, among others, is this once-great institution, now a victim to bullying and pressure: The English language. |
Laying it on a bit thick, no? Oh, the white man's burden defending the English language from feminists, so laughable. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Arabic L1s and gender neutrality in English |
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returnee2014 wrote: |
The inflexibility resides in you. Are you victimizing English or victimizing yourself. |
Neither, since I'm obviously not the author of this opinion piece. |
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returnee2014
Joined: 06 Jun 2014 Posts: 37 Location: SuliTown, Iraq
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Doh! |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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You probably should delete "Nomad Soul" from the quotes as it is not a quote of her comments, but those of Mr Alammar. And yes, it is easy to edit out her name, so it doesn't like you are attacking her.
Duh... indeed...
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RustyShackleford
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 449
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:45 am Post subject: |
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I somewhat sympathize with the views, given that I am prone to using the masculine as a general catch-all because it just has a more arachaic and "poetic" weight, but his little anti-feminist screed at the end just came off as more whiny than anything. I agree with returnee that I just like to use "they" are a catch-all nowadays because "He or she" DOES make the language more clunky.
In any case, gender in language and moaning about thereof is a superficial bandaid on a much deeper problem. Japanese, Vietnamese and Koreans are all pretty much languages without linguistic gender but no one would say they have surpassed sexism. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014 Posts: 456 Location: Wadi Jinn
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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This article is so badly written and full of holes and platitudes, it can’t be taken seriously. Here are just a few examples of what I mean:
“Grammatical gender is a somewhat difficult part of Arabic, but it is part of its extraordinary precision,…”
No more difficult than it is in the many languages that exhibit noun gender differentiation, like French. In this regard, German is much more difficult with 3 gender classifications, not to mention its clumsy article forms. I don’t see how this differentiation makes Arabic “extraordinarily” precise. What it does is make it more difficult, just like German. In contrast, the article in Arabic never changes…it’s always AL- whether the noun is masc. or fem. (conf. the Romance languages).
“If women are addressed, then almost everything is switched to the feminine. Not just pronouns and adjectives, but verbs and nouns as well.” Ditto in French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Catalan and countless other languages. Nothing exceptional here.
“It’s confusing and clumsy, when reading an English book, to see the adjectives and pronouns vacillating between masculine and feminine.” Sorry, Ibrahem, adjectives in English never “vacillate”. There’s only one form for them regardless of anything else (unlike Arabic). This is one aspect of English that simplifies things. In addition, Arabic pronouns "vacillate" as much as they do in English. So your statement here is incorrect and misleading on at least these two counts
And so on.
Finally (and most importantly), “But when a movement (like feminism) affects language itself; language that predates the social movement by hundreds or even thousands of years, there’s something wrong…”
Balderdash.
It is precisely the fact that English is willing to and is able to change and readily admits outside elements that has propelled her (English) into its (English) preeminent position in the world today. English is probably the only world language that does not have an “academy” “protecting” her from outside influence (like the laughable French).
It is precisely the fact that Arabic refuses to change that has kept Middle Eastern countries in an underdeveloped state. Language and culture is a two-way street. Each element is a reflection of the other and they both influence each other. In fact, Arabic is so extreme in this regard that the people have actually developed various “dialects” of Arabic to overcome this unmoving element of (written/classical) Arabic with the result that a foreigner must learn two related but quite separate languages to be able to say “I know Arabic”.
It is Arabic, not English that should be pitied.
Last edited by hash on Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:17 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Muhammed Abbas Khan
Joined: 04 Jan 2011 Posts: 73
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:32 pm Post subject: Non-standard English vs British Standard English |
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It is interesting to note non-standard English, despite widely held derision, can be more precise than its 'standard' counterpart. An example would be that of 'you' in Br.SE to refer to a group of people whilst the equivalent in a non-standard regional variety, spoken in Liverpool for example, would be 'youse'. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Parts of the US also use "youse" and SE US uses "ya'll" which is actually "you-all". But these are spoken terms and not used in writing.
VS |
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