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Non-native speaker.

 
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Pyccak



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 7
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:43 pm    Post subject: Non-native speaker. Reply with quote

I am a non-native English speaker. I am Russian, but for the past 7 years I’ve lived and studied in English-speaking countries (first England and now Canada). Native speakers can spot my slight Russian accent, but immigrants who speak English can't, they often mistake me for a local. What are my chances of getting a job, say in Russia, with and without a degree? Do schools in Russia employ English-speaking interviewers, or Russians?

PS: I do speak Russian like a Russian, but I've been out of the country for so long I obviously don't have any contacts.
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waxwing



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 719
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you still have Russian citizenship, then I cannot see any problem with getting an English teaching job in Russia; although most schools would want to pay you less 'cos you're Russian, you should be able to find the ones that value your fantastic level of skill and experience in English. If your citizenship and passport is only Canadian, then .. I dunno I guess that's actually better.. damn .. confusing .. does not compute Laughing

(question: is it possible to have both passports at once?)

The issue is whether they'll pay you the 'native speaker' rate or the 'locat teacher' rate. That certainly is an issue. My bet is that you will get different kinds of responses from different schools.

короче, you can come to Russia and teach English Smile. Exactly how it turns out will depend a lot on your attitude and how you approach it.

удачи!

PS I forgot to ask, what kind of relevant qualifications do you have?
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Pyccak



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 7
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I should become a Canadian citizen pretty soon, and I still have my Russian citizenship. I definitely don't want to get paid like a Russian teacher. They only get enough to starve on, it's a disgrace. I will have Quebec's Diploma of Collegial Studies which is sort of like a freshman year in University (Not a BA!). No teaching experience whatsoever. Oh and I can get a TESOL certificate in a few month.

Another important question: Are those TESOL schools that offer you an “internationally recognized” TESOL certificate, in a month or two of online study and a 3-day practical session, legit?

Last question I know it’s a touchy subject, but I still want to know. Is it worth getting those fake online university diplomas, from non-existent universities? Do schools run background checks on Universities if they are unsure of them?
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waxwing



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 719
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to citizenship, it occurs to me I might have misled you.. Embarassed .. because they often ask for 'native' teachers, which means maybe they look at your passport and check the place of birth Question .. it seems to me though that if you had a Canadian passport it would be half the battle.

To be honest I'm a bit out of my depth here, maybe there's someone with more knowledge who could help more.

As to teacher rates, don't forget that there is a big difference between state schools and private language schools. Even a Russian teacher will get vastly more in the latter than the former. It's just that foreigners get more still (except in rare cases, perhaps?).

As to TESOL certificates, there are only two that are generally recognised here: Trinity TESOL and CELTA. They both take 4-5 weeks and have assessed teaching practice. You should also have a University degree of some kind. Which brings us to the last point :

As to fake diplomas - pass.
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zaneth



Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Between Russia and Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Others on this board have more experience about the non-native speaker thing than I. If you look through you'll see some other threads where knowledgable folk have responded to this question for various countries. If I can gauge from those responses I've read, things seem to be better than I would generally expect.

I know a lot of Russians with American or Canadian passports. I can't imagine that makes them native speakers. And I know a lot of Russian English teachers with a very high level of language skill, and teaching skill, and credentials. As a foreigner, I get past some of the official requirements. It's hard for me to imagine that you'd be so lucky.

But there's certainly a demand for good English instruction here, and a dearth of qualified teachers. There's also translating, technical writing, working in western oriented firms, etc. And not having the visa/work permission headache will be a HUGE help to you. You don't have contacts but surely you can make them.

I know local teachers who make decent money. Their official salary is laughable but the students they have on the side keep them in a good (though perhaps unstable) income bracket. I'm not privy to the income of all the teachers I'm acquainted with, but even some who aren't such great teachers seem to be getting by OK.

But if you're Russian (and male?) aren't there higher paying jobs than teaching where you can use your English skills? I know very very few male teachers, and they all have high qualifications.
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bobs12



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Saint Petersburg

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Nationality Reply with quote

I don't know about other places, but in most places I've worked in St. Petersburg, if you come to them speaking English they won't doubt that you're a native speaker. If they don't ask, don't tell them. One of my favourite pieces of advice is never to let a school know any of your passport details. If you're not working legally (as none of us are) then the school has no need of them. If they ask, you should ask them what they need the details for.

I'm Scottish and Russians occasionally mistake my accent in English as a Russian accent. I was only once put under 'pressure' to 'identify' myself in a school by a smart-ass Russian who was ignorant to the existence of accents in English. If you've been in Canada, nobody is going to spot that you're Russian unless you drop something on your foot and let rip in a tirade of Russian foul language...
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canucktechie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BKC has a number of Russians teaching English (up to ADOS level). Some of them have a fairly strong accent too. I've never talked to them about salaries but I do know they take foreign vacations so I guess they get paid what the Anglos get Wink

Take a look at http://www.bkc.ru and you'll see some teacher bios.
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cheekygal



Joined: 04 Mar 2003
Posts: 1987
Location: China, Zhuhai

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salaries for Russian teachers in BKC are higher than of regular teachers elsewhere, but lower than *Anglos* Smile
My advice: get your Canadian citizenship and then apply for job. You don't have to disclose to anyone how long you lived overseas and where you were born. And you can work LEGALLY without any troubles Smile It's just that you would require a visa for Russia.
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waxwing



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 719
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheekygal, if you read my posts carefully you'll see I gave the same advice, and then semi-retracted it. This is because it occurred to me that passports contain the 'place of birth/lieu de naissance' field. At least mine does.
In general I don't think flat out lying will help. Although I don't deny having Canadian citizenship might.

Also, you say: "salaries for Russian teachers in BKC are higher than of regular teachers elsewhere, but lower than *Anglos*"

Thanks for that point, I assumed so but didn't know. By the way, where is 'elsewhere'? Smile You know there are other big chain schools in Russia, e.g. Language Link, English First. Do you mean they pay less? I guess you don't know that - don't assume that BKC is the only school! (sorry it's just a tendency I note in this forum...)
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cheekygal



Joined: 04 Mar 2003
Posts: 1987
Location: China, Zhuhai

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear waxwing, I am not assuming - I have written that based on the information I had. I don't mind to be proved wrong - may be something has changed over the past one year Smile

As for the citizenship - not disclosing is not lying. And the disclosing part was just about the length of his stay in Canada Smile

cheers Smile
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waxwing



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 719
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheekygal wrote:
You don't have to disclose to anyone how long you lived overseas and where you were born.


In that case something is not clear here. AFAIK you DO have to give your potential employer a copy of your passport page, which contains your place of birth. That is the issue I'm raising; not whether it's legal for them to employ you (legality is not an issue here because in any case he's Russian and therefore it's obviously going to be legal to employ him anyway), but whether they would hire you as an 'Anglo'. If they see 'Moscow' for example as a place of birth I don't know how they react to that.
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canucktechie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To further muddy the waters, I know people from Germany, Czech Rep, and Bosnia who also teach English at BKC. I'm pretty sure they get paid what I do (maybe the German gets more because he also teaches German).

If the Russians are indeed paid less, perhaps it's because they are "captives" and don't have the option of working outside the country, rather than because they are not native speakers.
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waxwing



Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 719
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Russians are paid less it is for reasons of simple market economics. We are bait ('fishki' as my school owner put it) - we're there to bring in the bodies. Without us they think (rightly or otherwise) that the business would be less profitable because students want the носитель языка. They set the salaries accordingly.

There is a difference between the Russian and Anglo salaries, but I don't know what it is.
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