Job Discussion Forums

[Double_Dragon]

Shangri La.

[Non Sequitur]

Like most things in China, the further West you go the less sophisticated the environment.
I think that will apply to visa prerequisites also.

[jimpellow]

NS makes a good point as usual.

The two years experience, stemming from the recent visa changes, seems to have stemmed from the fact that China copied (which is what Chinese excel at) the South Korean model. I am no SK expert, but it seems that this requirement is at the least on the books, if not in reality enforced.

The funny thing is that the Chinese, always thinking more is better (Why send one person with you to the government office when they can send four?), initially decided to up it to five years. Luckily sane heads quickly rolled this back before it made its way down the hierarchy.

Still, they are clueless to the reality that a fair amount of teachers that come to China to teach are new to ESL and/or would be homeless in their home countries spending their days bouncing a rubber ball on the sidewalk babbling incoherently (That was me!). By "weeding out" these two groups, and without big increases in salary and such to pull teachers from other countries, they are quickly killing their supply of teachers.

BTW, if you were to come and teach a subject like Physics, technically, you are still supposed to have five years. But I have never heard of this being enforced, or the schools apply for the subject teacher under the guise of being a general ESL teacher.

If you are new to China and frustrated by this requirement, you do have the option now to attend a TEFL in China school at your expense. Then the requirement is waved (not sure if everywhere so check first).

Sorry to say but if you lack the two years but are in possession of a CELTA, DELTA and/or PH.d in Linguistics, you still need to attend the Chinese approved program in Shanghai or Beijing.

[Mikeylikesit114]

This just in.....China may not have the most, ahem, honest workplace culture. If you don't know that already, you haven't done much research about the place.

You are asked for two years of work experience on your resume. It will not be checked unless you say that you were a US senator or Harvard professor or something, and even then it might not be. Your references will not be contacted.

As I like to say in my economics classes, solve for the equilibrium.

[Double_Dragon]

[hdeth]

It seemed like many schools are desperate enough for teachers they will either find a way to get around the 2 years requirement or 'edit' your resume a bit. Chinese people seem to lie on their resumes all the time so it doesn't seem to be a big deal here. Rather than checking work history and references they use a probation period to ferret out the people who can't do the job.

So, just apply, and see what happens, at worst you wasted a couple hours. I would aim for unis. Recruiters are under pressure to close a deal and might be able to help you.

[jimpellow]

To answer your question poster, that is a good question you raise about the China in TEFL. I knew when people were first coming for that the whole thing about returning was up in the air. I would think that logically they would have worked this out because I don't know who the hell would fly to China, spend good money on a hotel and school fees to get a TEFL in China, and then fly fly all the way back to their home country to do the visa process and then fly back to China. You could always email the schools and ask about this.

I agree with the posters' points about the bureaucrats being lazy and schools doing what they can to sneak you through the process. But some of these people do actually work, and some are motivated by fear of having something come back to bite them in the butt. I think they would more likely than not look at the date of the degree. When I recently was looking at coming back to China to work for Wall Street in Beijing, the HR woman was on top of things and said the local authorities also checked that the reference letters added up to 2 years and had caught some altered letters and would check on them at least some of the time. Beijing though is pretty anal so maybe better luck elsewhere.

Still, going to be luck that will determine if you make it. There are lots of jobs in other countries in Asia and elsewhere. You just have to dig more as they are not as widely advertised and they are not in a constant state of desperation like China. As you are young, you could easily hook up with something in a country like South Korea or Japan as they seem to have a real preference for presenting non wrinkled faces to their students.

But for China, I would contact the China in TEFL program first and find out what they say, then question if what they tell you is truthful.

[sonnytron]

I just finished all my documentation and I'm awaiting the foreign affairs office to approve my visa request.

Here's what I can say, and take it with a grain of salt as this is my first ESL job:
The demand in the city is a HUGE contributor to how flexible the school and region is on visa requirements and how willing they are to negotiate your offer.
If we're talking tier 1 or close to it (Beijing, Shanghai, HK, Shenzhen, etc) then you should probably expect to need to meet every requirement.

However, tier 2 cities or medium sized cities with big public school systems but a huge lack of tourist appeal seem to have trouble locking in teachers. For these schools, you'll find that the recruiters are often experts in how to "navigate" the system to make the paper 'work'.

My stats:
Graduated in December 2014. Have teaching experience prior to attending college for one year, and two years of half-time English tutoring during undergraduate working with ESL students.

High ranked university (seriously, super high ranked, like top 30 or 40 in the world) with STEM degree.

Native English passport/citizenship. Actually United States, which for some reason (which I don't actually agree with) makes me more desirable as a candidate.

Was working on TEFL when I got the offer, but wasn't complete yet. Was told that the hours/type/company didn't matter as long as I had the certificate with my name on it.

Most recent employer wasn't a school, was a private software company. She asked for a recommendation from the recent employer, but told me that any employer will do as long as it's recent enough.

I think mostly what they're looking for is that you have an accredited degree from a physical school, a strong command of the English language, a clean body and mind and that you get "enough" of the logistics done.

However, for a job I was considering in Beijing, which had similar salary and work requirements, I needed to get a criminal background fingerprint check from the FBI and a letter of recommendation for actual teaching experience.

[Non Sequitur]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, once the school go into bat for you and make the job offer (which you use for the Z), they've pretty well worked out that the local office of the PSB or whoever handles the residence application in their area, are going to play ball.

[Double_Dragon]

[jimpellow]

[Non Sequitur]

Aaahh Jim lad.
So young yet so cynical.
Seriously though, are you suggesting that a school making an offer based on the 'honest' CV, haven't thought through the residence procedure after arrival?
If you are correct, it's worrying.
It's like airlines overbooking flights. This is based on the statistical likelihood that x-percent won't show up at check-in.
On the school side, I wonder if they just absorb the excess somewhere in the timetable and the teacher never hears about it.

[jimpellow]

[Double_Dragon]

[Non Sequitur]

'when the teacher gets screwed for his z-visa or residence permit'.
Which is it Jim?
These two scenarios are miles apart in terms of harm to the applicant.
No Z and you don't leave home.
No residence and you are marooned in China, possibly already teaching at your school for several weeks.
I know it's a possibility but I've yet to hear of a case where a teacher gets a Z and then is turned down for a residence permit.