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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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 Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Jmbf wrote: |
| hdeth wrote: |
I am strongly leaning towards taking a lower paying university job and offering tutoring. I've been offered 300-400 an hour for tutoring and I enjoy it a lot more if the student is bright enough. |
Do it. Focusing on tutoring was the best decision I ever made. If you are any good then you can command very decent rates. I find the job satisfaction to be much better as well. In addition you have huge scheduling flexibility. Finally, it's just so nice to be your own boss  |
I actually hate being my own boss...ran a business back in the states and the business part of it drove me nuts. I would basically have my girlfriend run it. She would tutor children and low-level students and I would tutor the more advanced students. Have her set everything up and figure out what to charge. She's much more into that stuff than I am...I would just work a uni gig or something and then do whatever appointments she set up for me. We're going to try this out on a smaller version this semester and see how it works. If it's working well then make the move when my contract is up in January. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| hdeth wrote: |
| If it's working well then make the move when my contract is up in January. |
How will you stay in China without a visa sponsor? I am sure you have thought about this, just curious what you would do. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| even when a 10 year tourist visa.. exits have to be made every 60 days .. so it is far less expensive to study at a uni than to pay for all the ins and outs... |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| I am married, so I could possibly just do a RP based on that. Not sure of the ins and outs of it. I am on a work RP now, and probably will remain that way for a while. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| creeper1 wrote: |
| China2 wrote: |
| I would not accepts less than 21,000 a month after tax. However, it also depends on your age, where you are in terms of yr EFL career etc. |
It's posts like this that give warped ideas about salaries in China.
You would probably need a PhD and work at a top notch international school to earn this.
Most in China are on about 5k and struggling to make ends meet. |
It surprises me that the old myths and financial abuse continues to this day.
- Many public schools and universities are given a budget of over 20,000 a month to hire their foreign teacher
- they pay you peanuts and pocket the rest
I worked in a public school for six months and earned 10,000 a month; a private school and earned over 20,000 a month;
My own school and made more than I'd care to admit.
Anyone who is earning chump change is either desperate, not qualified, or lazy as hell.
You will have those people come here and argue now, recruiters and school bosses defend the low wages, or some other reason why they are happy with 3000-7000 a month.
Sad that nothing has changed. |
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tony87
Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it's that bad. Let's say average 6,000 for 16 hours a week + apartment. If you value the apartment at 2,000 and get 4 months vacation that's 60,000 a year + 24,000 for apartment, let's say 6,000 for flights bringing total compensation to 90,000...for 8 months work...which is just over 10,000 a month for working 16 hours a week.
It's not amazing but it's not terrible, you won't have to teach kids, and you'll get some nice holiday time too. ESL teaching isn't really about getting rich...the 'perks' are the stress free lifestyle, long vacations, opportunities to travel and see the world. If money is the main goal, you'd probably be better off in a corporate job back home. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with money being the main goal, just that teaching English abroad isn't really the way to get it. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| tony87 wrote: |
I don't think it's that bad. Let's say average 6,000 for 16 hours a week + apartment. If you value the apartment at 2,000 and get 4 months vacation that's 60,000 a year + 24,000 for apartment, let's say 6,000 for flights bringing total compensation to 90,000...for 8 months work...which is just over 10,000 a month for working 16 hours a week.
It's not amazing but it's not terrible, you won't have to teach kids, and you'll get some nice holiday time too. ESL teaching isn't really about getting rich...the 'perks' are the stress free lifestyle, long vacations, opportunities to travel and see the world. If money is the main goal, you'd probably be better off in a corporate job back home. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with money being the main goal, just that teaching English abroad isn't really the way to get it. |
It's human, particularly male, nature to compare and compete. Even a bunch of Eco warriors living in a forest would be discussing who salvaged the least out of date food from the supermarket skip. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
It surprises me that the old myths and financial abuse continues to this day.
- Many public schools and universities are given a budget of over 20,000 a month to hire their foreign teacher
- they pay you peanuts and pocket the rest
I worked in a public school for six months and earned 10,000 a month; a private school and earned over 20,000 a month;
My own school and made more than I'd care to admit.
Anyone who is earning chump change is either desperate, not qualified, or lazy as hell.
You will have those people come here and argue now, recruiters and school bosses defend the low wages, or some other reason why they are happy with 3000-7000 a month.
Sad that nothing has changed. |
In some ways I agree. If you are motivated and willing to work hard then you can find ways to earn a decent income, even as an English teacher. But there will always be entry level roles for those just getting into the industry. There will always be roles for those who want to work minimal hours and can accept the pay that goes along with it. Horses for courses. |
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weigookin74
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| creeper1 wrote: |
| China2 wrote: |
| I would not accepts less than 21,000 a month after tax. However, it also depends on your age, where you are in terms of yr EFL career etc. |
It's posts like this that give warped ideas about salaries in China.
You would probably need a PhD and work at a top notch international school to earn this.
Most in China are on about 5k and struggling to make ends meet. |
It surprises me that the old myths and financial abuse continues to this day.
- Many public schools and universities are given a budget of over 20,000 a month to hire their foreign teacher
- they pay you peanuts and pocket the rest
I worked in a public school for six months and earned 10,000 a month; a private school and earned over 20,000 a month;
My own school and made more than I'd care to admit.
Anyone who is earning chump change is either desperate, not qualified, or lazy as hell.
You will have those people come here and argue now, recruiters and school bosses defend the low wages, or some other reason why they are happy with 3000-7000 a month.
Sad that nothing has changed. |
Makes sense. Folks can pay more than they advertise. There's plenty of jobs and not enough folks going to China. The ball is in your court, especially if you're experienced.
Got a buddy in a smaller city on the east coast working a public school gig. No teaching experience, got a free apartment and 12,000 rmb a month. Were going to pay him less he asked for more they gave him 12. He said, they'd go up to 15,000. That and free 2 or 3 bedroom apartment is prob still less than 20,000 of course, but prob small margins for the private contracting company.
Minimum I'd do for China would be 20,000 for a big city with no apartment and maybe 12,000 in a smaller place with an aprtment or maybe around that with an aprtment in a big city if there's some slackness in the job. Perhaps, a 15,000 with no apartment in the big city if there's slackness in a public school with no deskwarming. Though I I'd be quite a bit poorer after paying the 5 or 6 k rent and taxes. So, I'd have to have enough free time to be worth it or to make it up. |
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The_Big_White_Elephant
Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Jmbf wrote: |
| Still, 20 - 21K RMB / month doesn't translate into much money back in the western world. Given that max teaching salaries in China top out at around 30,000 RMB / month there's not much room for growth is there? |
But you are living in China, where the cost of living is significantly cheaper than in the West, so it's completely irrelevant what this translates to in the West.
20,000 RMB/month translates to roughly $40,000 USD/year, but considering the cheap cost of living in China, you could save $30,000 per year with a bit of effort.
Now imagine saving $30,000/year in the US on a salary of $40,000. It's impossible.
So it is pointless to apply Western standards to your salary in China. It's what you can save that is important, not your salary. And you can save a heck of a lot with 20,000 RMB/month. |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Big_White_Elephant wrote: |
| Jmbf wrote: |
| Still, 20 - 21K RMB / month doesn't translate into much money back in the western world. Given that max teaching salaries in China top out at around 30,000 RMB / month there's not much room for growth is there? |
But you are living in China, where the cost of living is significantly cheaper than in the West, so it's completely irrelevant what this translates to in the West.
20,000 RMB/month translates to roughly $40,000 USD/year, but considering the cheap cost of living in China, you could save $30,000 per year with a bit of effort.
Now imagine saving $30,000/year in the US on a salary of $40,000. It's impossible.
So it is pointless to apply Western standards to your salary in China. It's what you can save that is important, not your salary. And you can save a heck of a lot with 20,000 RMB/month. |
Seconded. That and the fact that you don't pay tax (er.. of course I do..  ) , but there is huge saving potential here. Living very comfortably and am saving a lot.
Also seconded to the great wall's comment. I know of a handful of schools in my city that pay quite a bit, and I'm not even in a massive city. I would imagine that greed gets in the way and that keeps the wages low. Recruiters/FAOs/whoever handles your money magically take a cut. Especially if the recruiter/fao are good friends. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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When I worked in industry, the company's view of employee cost was TCE or Total Cost of Employment.
The employees view was salary.
TCE included a lot of items which the employee would not consider as remuneration including a share of recruitment costs - advertising, agent fees etc.
Also a share of personnel and health and safety costs, plus company share of superannuation contributions.
As far as salary is concerned 20K pm in Shanghai where you find and pay for your own apartment is vastly different to 20K living on campus in a school-supplied place.
Some posters react badly when you ask for clarification of their salary figure. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Markness wrote: |
| The_Big_White_Elephant wrote: |
| Jmbf wrote: |
| Still, 20 - 21K RMB / month doesn't translate into much money back in the western world. Given that max teaching salaries in China top out at around 30,000 RMB / month there's not much room for growth is there? |
But you are living in China, where the cost of living is significantly cheaper than in the West, so it's completely irrelevant what this translates to in the West.
20,000 RMB/month translates to roughly $40,000 USD/year, but considering the cheap cost of living in China, you could save $30,000 per year with a bit of effort.
Now imagine saving $30,000/year in the US on a salary of $40,000. It's impossible.
So it is pointless to apply Western standards to your salary in China. It's what you can save that is important, not your salary. And you can save a heck of a lot with 20,000 RMB/month. |
Seconded. That and the fact that you don't pay tax (er.. of course I do.. ) |
Third-ed. And now for the second part of your comment: you're in Chengdu, you work at some kind of international school, your real name may have the letters "M-A-R-K" in them, you lack hair, you're from Canada, and you're probably not paying income tax. No, I'm not saying you killed Mrs Peacock in the library with the lead pipe because she was going to turn you in. What I am saying is there's a reason people don't reveal their true location on the internet (the "where are you" thread), and the word that comes to mind isn't "paranoia."
| Markness wrote: |
| I would imagine that greed gets in the way and that keeps the wages low. Recruiters/FAOs/whoever handles your money magically take a cut. Especially if the recruiter/fao are good friends. |
Greed goes both ways. This forum has hundreds of threads where the topic is money, money, money. A couple of examples from this thread... We have the bragging posts:
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| I worked in a public school for six months and earned 10,000 a month; a private school and earned over 20,000 a month; My own school and made more than I'd care to admit. |
And this one particularly condescending post directed at anyone whose top priority is not money:
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Anyone who is earning chump change is either desperate, not qualified, or lazy as hell. You will have those people come here and argue now, recruiters and school bosses defend the low wages, or some other reason why they are happy with 3000-7000 a month. Sad that nothing has changed. |
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Many public schools and universities are given a budget of over 20,000 a month to hire their foreign teacher |
Not all public schools are equal. Some have the support of not only the government but wealthy independent foundations, and thus can offer their foreign experts a higher salary (with correspondingly higher job demands). And pulling a number out of thin air with nothing to back it up is supposed to be believed? That's one thing that sadly hasn't changed on this forum. Over the years we've seen "foreign experts" post all kinds of nonsense and not a lot to back it up other than "trust me, I know." No, you/they don't know because I doubt anyone on this forum has any idea what a public school's budget for anything really is since we aren't in the loop to know these things. I don't know how much this public university receives in order to keep me on the payroll, and as an employee it's none of my business. What I do know is they pay me fairly for the kind and amount of work I do. |
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Biber
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:17 pm Post subject: Ningbo China |
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| I posted on the other old thread, this is more relevant. Nottingham Ningbo offers about 350,000 per year plus housing and other benefits. This is much higher than the highest paid jobs discussed on this thread. |
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hz88
Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:42 am Post subject: |
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I have seen this topic talked about several times and try to take an impartial view of things.
Having seen both sides of the coin as employer and employee, I agree with Non Sequitur's comments. There are costs to the employer, whether they are in the Government or Private sector which are not always evident to an applicant or existing employee.
I'm not just talking about recruitment, but the initial and ongoing costs in obtaining licences and certificates etc. As an example the cost to us this year per new foreign teacher is averaging out at just over 12,000rmb just to process an FEC. If accommodation is being provided there are also ongoing costs to factor in.
There generally is a set budget and if recruiters are involved then invariably there is some manipulation of the figures to incorporate that element of things. By omitting them from the equation we were able to offer a better package overall. We also have to consider the local market, if we stand out as being way above the others in the area we risk complaints from them. Some might view that as alleged collusion but it is not. There is a very close network amongst many FAO's and school leaders and whereas in the west we try not to stand on each others toes they have similar considerations. By offering other incentives such as paid holidays etc we are still way above them in what we pay overall but the apparent figure monthly is negligable.
It also depends on the city, province and many other factors. It also depends on you, what your goals are, whether you want to save money or want to spend it. Sometimes I spend all my salary in one month, sometimes hardly any. You also have to consider the type of job you want to do. You can enjoy a relatively stress free lifestyle with less hours for less pay in a Uni or high school position or be run ragged and spend all your time tooing and froing at a Training Centre. You may appear like a local Rockerfella but you will get burnt out. The latter is certainly not for me but then again the former might not be for others.
This topic always ignites some peoples fires so I expect someone will disagree with me but this is just my opinion based on both sides of the equation. |
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