|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
elliot_spencer
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 495
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:33 am Post subject: Scared |
 |
|
Anyone getting scared out there due to the escalating violence in this country?
Last edited by elliot_spencer on Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Nebbich
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Turkey
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Walked into a demonstration of idiots on Antalya last night...all crying for revenge and death to the Kurds...clearly orchestrated.
If these dumb arseholes push this too far and Kurds, Alevis and the Tayyip gang all start going at each other, then we're all in the poop.
Especially worrying now that they've de-balled the military. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| elliot_spencer wrote: |
| Anyone getting scared out there due to the escalating violence in this country? |
I'm not scared yet since I'm in Istanbul, which I think is still as safe as it was before, but I think I would be if I lived closer to the conflict.
| Nebbich wrote: |
| Walked into a demonstration of idiots on Antalya last night...all crying for revenge and death to the Kurds...clearly orchestrated. |
Although I disagree with calling them "idiots" (I suggest you try sitting down and having a discussion with one of them when they're calmer because it'll be a great learning opportunity to see something from a perspective different from that of the western media; they really feel for these young police officers and soldiers, who are being killed and injured.) as well as any cries for death to any innocents, you have to understand the history behind this conflict and even go back to Ottoman history, the forming of the modern nation-state, violence between Kurds and the state in the 1970s including the founding of the PKK in 1978, and the recent ceasfire, which obviously is no longer in effect.
At the same time, I discourage everyone from participating in any demonstrations and encourage all to stay away from them as much as possible just for the sake of safety. These are unfortunately prime targets for attacks. It's also not a good idea at all to go to the southern (bordering Syria) and eastern provinces at this time because of the war in Syria, ISIS, and the current Turkey-PKK conflict. Those wishing to come to Turkey to teach English would do well to wait and see what happens. I hope that the November 1st snap elections can be a source for peace and a political solution to the present conflict.
| Nebbich wrote: |
| If these dumb arseholes push this too far and Kurds, Alevis and the Tayyip gang all start going at each other, then we're all in the poop. |
I think the main conflict now is between the PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party), which is a communist organization deemed a terrorist organization by Turkey, NATO, the EU, and the United States of America, and the Turkish police force and military. Now, the cease-fire between the two, which started on March 21, 2013 has been over since July of this year, regardless of who broke it first. The Turkish police and military say it's because the PKK killed two police officers on July 22, 2015, and the PKK say it's because the Turkish air force bombed its positions in Iraq on July 24, 2015.
Therefore the Turkish military and police force have been actively fighting against the PKK and vice versa since then. In other words, they've already started "going at each other," but it's just that it's getting more intense and that's why we're reading more news about it each day, i.e., more people are unfortunately being killed in this decades-long conflict, which has erupted once more.
By the way, I don't know what brought Alevis into this, but it's important to separate between Alevis and Kurds (not mutually inclusive) as well as the PKK and Kurds (also not mutually inclusive). I think you'll find that there's a good range of diversity and a variety of opinions in many groups and that the issue is more nuanced than it may appear.
If by "the Tayyip gang" you mean the first democratically-elected president of Turkey by popular vote, something that the US still doesn't have with its electoral system, and his political party, the AK Parti, then I think you'd be surprised to find out that they're not the only ones in support of imprisoning PKK members and attacking their bases. The MHP surely doesn't have a problem with this either as they have a very strong relationship with the old military that you seem to want to be strong in Turkey again today, and they were third place in terms of votes in the last election.
| Nebbich wrote: |
| Especially worrying now that they've de-balled the military. |
This is the same military that overthrew democratically-elected governments in 1960, 1971, 1980, 1993, and 1997, leading to many human rights violations and threats to the democratization of Turkey, such as the execution of elected Prime Minister Adnan Menderes in 1961, despite pleas from American President John F. Kennedy and Elizabeth II of the UK. This is the same military that was ultra-nationalist and killed thousands of Kurds (Sunnis, Alevis, atheists, communists, rebels, innocents, etc.) from the forming of the modern republic through the military campaigns and extrajudicial executions that lasted up until the late 90s, believe it or not. There was still even martial law in primarily Kurdish provinces until 2002--the same year that Erdoğan's party first won its major election in parliament, which was followed by an expansion of rights for Kurds, such as making it legal for the Kurdish language to be spoken in political campaigns and to be taught in schools; it's not a perfect situation, but the last 13 years have shown a tremendous amount of progress for Kurds across the country. Add to that the ceasefire, the success of the HDP in finally getting the 10% threshhold of votes to get into parliament, and the potential of more autonomy and the ultra-nationalist military you speak of is quite unhappy... Such a military had to be put under the control of officials elected by the citizens of Turkey and some of its members had to be tried for war crimes or military coups, successful or attempted. I suggest you read up a little bit more on the history of the Republic of Turkey, something I continue to do and continue to learn more about, and be careful what you wish for...
------------------------------------------------------
As for my personal views--and I'm sorry for hijacking your thread, elliot_spencer, but I felt the need to offer a different perspective--I'm all for political solutions rather than armed conflicts and absolute freedom for everyone in the political landscape (Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, agnostics, atheist, communist, socialist, it doesn't matter) with a military under the control of the people with the purpose of protecting the people. In a democracy, it's not easy to have extremists because historically parties tend to mellow their stances in order to get more votes. Put the guns away and take your enthusiasm to political campaigns and polling stations. I'm trying to stay optimistic here, but if there's another hung parliament after the November 1st elections and the lira continues to drop in value, it's going to be extremely hard to continue even trying to do so... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wasatchteacher
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 21
Location: TURKEY
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I live in the deep South East of Turkey. And, ya it's scary. Pkk killing soldiers on the daily here. It's been rumoured that they might move on to other government workers. Not to mention road blocks, people not able to move between cities. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wasatchteacher wrote: |
| I live in the deep South East of Turkey. And, ya it's scary. Pkk killing soldiers on the daily here. It's been rumoured that they might move on to other government workers. Not to mention road blocks, people not able to move between cities. |
That does sound scary. Do you have plans to move (either to another part of Turkey or another country) if the situation worsens? At what point do you start to consider it too dangerous for you to stay there? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wasatchteacher
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 21
Location: TURKEY
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've got "ties" her, let's say, so it's not so easy for me to leave. I'd say anything that involves weapons on campus, I'd go. So far, I've avoided those hostile parts of town.
Same question, nichtta |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wasatchteacher wrote: |
| Same question, nichtta |
I'd say once I'm able to actually hear (from my house, work, or while I'm out in town) gunfire, explosions, or other signs of active combat or when there's a really high military presence in the streets in the form of armed soldiers, tanks, and other military vehicles, it's already too late for me.
Once the situation starts getting close to that here in Istanbul is when I'm getting out of here as soon as I can. Of course, that results in financial loss (leaving a job, leaving my belongings or selling them at a very cheap price, etc.), and I realize that, but I think I'm willing to push it that far but no further, of course. I don't know if I'd go back home, consider another country where I'd relocate to continue teaching English, or go to a nearby country, such as Greece or Bulgaria, in order to wait things out until funds dry up. I haven't thought through that aspect of things yet.
I love Turkey and Istanbul in particular but not so much that I want to die here.
As the situation looks right now, we're very far from that point, at least for Istanbul, buuuut... that was the case in so many other countries in this region not too long ago (think Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Yemen, and even further back Iraq and Afghanistan). In other words, there's no telling when everything could suddenly and drastically change. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cartago
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 283
Location: Iraq
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I live in Iraqi Kurdistan and was in Eastern Turkey last year during the protests over Kobane. It was really intense. It's strange how Iraq feels safer. A few weeks ago I came back here and went through Diyarbakir and it was fine but I was just there for a night and passed through Mardin, Cizre and Silopi. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cartago wrote: |
| It's strange how Iraq feels safer. |
Wow... that really says something about the situation!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JohnRambo
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 183
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Scared |
|
|
| elliot_spencer wrote: |
| Anyone getting scared out there due to the escalating violence in this country? |
I'm not scared for my safety, but I don't like to read of the deaths of any people in the country in a conflict that's very needless and could have been avoided. And it also causes economic problems, to boot. Istanbul is very far from the East, but violence could come this way, of course. I just got here a month ago. It wouldn't necessarily be the best time for me to go back to the U.S. and drain my savings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wasatchteacher
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 21
Location: TURKEY
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nichtta wrote: |
| cartago wrote: |
| It's strange how Iraq feels safer. |
Wow... that really says something about the situation! |
Yep, one of my work colleagues said something like that..... Saying how the situation in Erbil is better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
parnett
Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 179
Location: China
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
I left Turkey five years ago after having lived there (mostly in Istanbul) for 13 years.I survived 2 major earthquakes, the economic crisis, the bombings of the British Consulate (in which the Ambassador's daughter died, the riots in Taksim, the butchering of several British hooligans by rival Turkish fans, and countless other uprisings. I never felt safe for one second in Istanbul.
Even in Ankara, where I was fortunate to be Erdogan's daughter Summeye's English tutor, I was still ill at ease most of the time. I don't know if it was due to the constant military presence or the incredible nationalism of the Turks themselves but the day I left was one of the happiest of my life.
I have now been in China for 5 years where I feel much more secure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
